Uggh..sad..embarresed sick! - IMBOC
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 10:11 PM Thread Starter

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Uggh..sad..embarresed sick!

So, I am in my 3rd, Bullitt. I am back to stay as I obviously love these cars and its my favorite out of the 17 V-8 American muscle cars I have owned. Anyway, with 3 young kids I decided it was time to stick to a car I knew I would love long term and give up the high priced cars.

So, short story long, I found one for $10K one owner, and he was 52 year old Air Force vet that had a 65 FB and a newer BOSS 302. Good find IMO. 2009 with 100k miles. I have had it 6 months. After I got it home had the oil changed, at Dealership, so I knew I was good to go. Over the 6 months I only put 3K miles on it.

Now the bad part... I had noticed a noise ticking, something that sounded like exhaust, heat shield, or as a past experience a throw-out bearing and I assumed clutch might be going. Nothing alarming until last weekend. I ran it through a carwash, and buy the time it came out if was making terrible knocking, pinging noise. I freaked jumped in the car check gauges and all looked ok. so, I rev'd the car and noise went away. hmm ok drove it home with no noise. Next day I go to drive it and engine light is on... codes were P00174 and I think P00012. lean bank and retard timing?

Next day its at the dealership. Now I am embarrassed, because their phone call to me was you were 3 quarts low on oil. I don't know how in 3k miles, but I am more embarrassed I didn't check dip stick but the noise just didn't seem to come from engine. So, Ford did their diagnostics removing one value cover and stated that the CAM journals are severely scored, and they suggest a new block/engine.

So, I just had the oil changed with a treatment, and all noise and ticking is gone. It runs through all gears and high RPM with no issue, but after it was running for about 40min today at some stop signs ticking started up and timing felt off. That went away once I took off but felt sluggish.

With all that, I don't want to be beat up over this and I know this is a good forum with guys that have the same love I have for these Bullitts. So, I am just wondering if there is any advice for extending the life of this motor, are there options beyond the $7K Ford wanted for block/motor replacement. Also, shouldn't there be some indication from the car that the car is low on oil, oil pressure change, temp change..something. Any ideas where 3 quarts went in 3K miles with no leaks.

Thanks in advance for any advice, besides checking the dipstick every 500 miles, I do appreciate your time and insight as I do intend to keep this car or another 08-09 Bullitt.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 10:36 PM
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Man, that sucks big time. Hard to believe you lost 3 quarts in 3 K? Car would have to be smoking? Did they take pictures of the cam?
Sounds like could be slack timing chain or worn out tensioner/s. But, the cam damage is disturbing, and if true, that metal is making itself at home in your engine. Dealers use bulk pumps for oil changes, maybe the guy never put 5 or 6 quarts in?
I'm sure there are guys who could find you a low mile GT engine and you could swap the intake if you have to replace it.
I'd want to do a compression test, pull both valve covers, measure the cams, and possibly take the front cover off and see what's going on with the cam chains? Also remove the oil filter and cut it open and look for metal.
Bottom line, I don't think it's going to get better on it's own. Good luck
PS Don't be embarrassed, it may not be your fault.
Just thinking, it could be other stuff, coils, injectors, sensors, but it would throw a code for those.


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Last edited by bullit4404; 04-27-2018 at 11:05 PM.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 02:28 PM

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I don't see how it would be possible to burn that much oil, without smoke, in just 3k miles. If not that, I'd almost have to assume the dealership did not sufficiently fil on the last change. Now if you can prove that, who knows.... 6 months seems like a reasonable amount of time to involve the dealership at fault.

Could also be combination, maybe dealership left out 1-2qts and it burned the other?

Very suspect to me.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 11:35 AM

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You definitely need a second opinion from a shop you can trust. Dealerships are mostly training grounds. Some have the best Ford mechanic available but they also have a lot of trainees. You never know who looked at your car. If the second opinion confirm what the dealership told you, then you can feel better about using the dealer in the future.

You have a lot of options other than a new engine. The cam (and journals) are in the heads on this engine. If the rest of the engine is in good shape, maybe time to update to some higher performance heads with HP cams. If that is not in your budget (understandable with 3 kids), have machine shop rework your heads. New Engine is just one option and I understand the dealership recommending that. They will warranty their work so they want what will be the most reliable repair.

BTW, with the emissions control and especially the CATS, it may be possible you did not see the car smoking. I have seen cars using more than a quart every 1,000 miles never show signs of smoking. But then again, they also eventually had to replace the CATS as they also became stopped up.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 03:25 PM

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Like BULLITT 4404 said, your best, lowest cost option is finding a low mileage donor motor from an 08, 09 GT and once they swap all the BULLITT Specific External Engine parts/accessories You will be Good to go for a fraction of what Dealer quoted you.

In 2016, I burned a Piston on my 01 and engine was toast. The car and engine had 125,000 miles at the time.

For $900, I found low mileage (40,000 mile 2 valve 4.6 out of an 03 Grand Marquis, (Period Correct cause what distinguished the 01 Bullitt engine from the regular GT, Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis was the BULLITT Specific Intake/Throttle Bodies (2), exhaust Manifolds, exhaust system, and other engine accessorizes).

My Shop transferred everything from original engine to donor engine, Intake, exhaust manifolds, oil pan, valve cover dip stick location, etc., etc., and 02058 was given a new lease on life. When I bought the car in 2011 it had 101,000 miles. With the donor engine, it works better now that when I got it.

Our 01 and 08-09 BULLITTS will never be worth the crazy money some of the Boss 429's are getting at Auction.

So go with a period correct, save yourself a pile of money and get back to doing what the BULLITT was made to do , Drive and Enjoy.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 09:05 AM

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I'd get a new engine for it from Jasper engines. Not only are they good engines they address every issues that the engine had from the factory.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 07:26 PM Thread Starter

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Thanks!!

Thanks for the feedback and information. I will look at each option and try and make a decision in the next few months. I have been driving it and I have 130 miles on it since getting it back.

I have had 3 instances of it knocking/timing off that seems to go away as I keep driving. I assume its just a matter of time before real issues arise. I will follow up with the other dealership about the low oil in 3k miles but I agree it would be hard to prove any fault.

I wouldn't mind mod'ing or changing motors but I need to do something I can keep under $6k for sure, so I don't feel guilty about college funds . I know close by Cllinton IL Ford is really good but once again its a Dealership. I will search for options on donor parts, or just upgrading heads and cams, and maybe motor swap. Anyway, I will research thoroughly before I pull the trigger and come back out and update so you guys know what I did, and others may see this thread in the future if they would have similar issue or need options.

Thanks again, and any other thoughts and opinions are highly appreciated!!

B
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 10:41 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blk09Bullitt View Post
Thanks for the feedback and information. I will look at each option and try and make a decision in the next few months. I have been driving it and I have 130 miles on it since getting it back.

I have had 3 instances of it knocking/timing off that seems to go away as I keep driving. I assume its just a matter of time before real issues arise. I will follow up with the other dealership about the low oil in 3k miles but I agree it would be hard to prove any fault.

I wouldn't mind mod'ing or changing motors but I need to do something I can keep under $6k for sure, so I don't feel guilty about college funds . I know close by Cllinton IL Ford is really good but once again its a Dealership. I will search for options on donor parts, or just upgrading heads and cams, and maybe motor swap. Anyway, I will research thoroughly before I pull the trigger and come back out and update so you guys know what I did, and others may see this thread in the future if they would have similar issue or need options.

Thanks again, and any other thoughts and opinions are highly appreciated!!

B
On my 01, 2 years ago, Total parts and labor including our 15% sales tax totaled $3,400. $900 for Donor Motor, 25 hours labor at 65 per hour and other incidentals, fluids, gaskets, new water pump. My guess, in the US where you are you could easily shave a thousand off what I spent.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 12:25 PM

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I assume (and we all know what that means) that you used the factory recommended weight of oil (5W30). This car is equipped with Cam Phaser which adjusts the cam timing as you drive based upon oil pressure. If you use the wrong weight oil (too heavy), that will cause problems.

Also, DO NOT ADD ANY OTHER ADDITIVES TO THE OIL.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 08:57 PM Thread Starter

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More disturbing news!!

So, I called the Dealership where I had the oil changed, and found out I was off by 1K miles. I only put 2K miles on the car since the oil change and it was 3 quarters low. Now, my car was not smoking what so ever so I assume there is no way it burned all that oil. So, I went into see the Service Manager, yeah I know wasting my time especially since I bought the car private party, and talked to him about it. He was nice about it and said he would look into and see if he thought there might be any evidence on their end that they left it short of oil. Once again yeah this will probably go no where, but I wanted to bring it up since it was only 2k miles.

Also, in searching I found a 2010 Mustang GT motor with 62k miles for $1,300 and that's delivered from 50 miles away. The motor is out and I assume has been sitting and I think its at a small shop. So, what's the odds its ok, or usable. Ad says it runs great and comes complete with the harness and computer. I have only seen one pic but will call the guy tomorrow as e just replied today. I do believe the 2010 GT motors are perfect fits but can someone confirm that for me??

Thanks again everyone I do appreciate it and I will keep you updated!!

B
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 09:21 PM
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Well, it's a crap shoot anytime you buy a used engine. Definitely want to see them turn it over by hand at least to make sure it's not seized. How long has it been sitting? Then, before I put it in I'd put it on some blocks, mount a starter and do a compression test. If that looks good, then you at least know it's not a total waste to install it. Maybe the guy would even do that for you? Go see the engine.
The 2010 engines should fit, somebody correct me if I'm mistaken.
Years ago I bought a Porsche engine, got it home, compression test, 1 cylinder way low, bent exhaust valve (over rev). Luckily I paid with a cheque, stopped payment, and re-negotiated the price. So my other suggestion, use your credit card or a cheque, then you have some "go back" power. I suggest you don't pay cash.
This whole incident is a heart breaker. Hope you find a satisfactory solution to your problem.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 03:25 PM

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YES, a 2010 GT motor will be much better than an 08 or 09 GT motor. Basically the 4.6 in the 2010 GT is the same as the Bullitt motor. The Bullitt had several improvement over the standard GT motor and those improvement became standard in the 2010 GT. Hopefully that motor is as advertised and usable.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 09:26 PM

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I'm betting the dealer not only underfilled the oil but put in too heavy a weight, screwing up the top end. If the Bullitt is not your daily driver, take some time with the situiation and really research your alternatives. If it were me, I would run some motor flush through the oil to clean out the bad oil and change the oil with correct factory oil weight and amount with a new filter. I would then find a local mustang club whose members can tell you the name of a good speed shop or reputable local engine re-builder. Take the car to the recommended shop and have them check the engine codes on their computers and make sure some of the codes aren't triggered by intake or oxygen sensors, lack of previous owners maintenance, etc. and the shop can impartially look at the engine condition. A good mechanic/engine builder has probably seen your same engine problem a hundred times and can give you an expert diagnosis.

I accidentally ran my Bullitt a couple of quarts low once after an oil change probably for a few thousand miles, added oil and everything was fine. I currently have 148,000 miles on the Bullitt engine and its my daily driver. My guess is the dealer's stupidity screwed up your VCT/cams/heads. I think the bottom end of the engine is probably pretty robust and you might be able to get away with possibly just some top end work? If so why not some upgrades? Best wishes, let us know how you make out.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 09:59 PM Thread Starter

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VCT Solenoid Replacement

So, Dealership got back to me and they aren't claiming any misdoing on their end.. shock and this is what I assumed. I do have a question though. I did my own research and I came across a youtube that discussed the VCT Solenoid going bad and the symptoms he described are exactly what my car is doing. Seems to sound and run fine, once warm and at ideal I get the missed timing and knocking noise. If I rev or take off it seems to go away. He claims this is a faulty VCT solenoid. Could that be my problem and could the Ford tech actually have missed this, or not have known to test for it? They were so focused on it being low on oil, and I assume that could cause the VCT solenoid to go bad, that I am not sure he checked it or looked at it. Anyone, had experience replacing one of these, and what was your symptoms?
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 10:30 PM
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There are two VCT's, one for each bank. I believe they cost ~$135 each and it's about an hour each side to replace. Here's my concern. The faulty VCT would not explain the apparent camshaft damage? You could throw money at this and it may not be your problem. A good tech should be able to eliminate or identify this as a problem. Maybe someone else has replaced one?


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