Complete Track setup, S-197, 05-14 - Page 3 - IMBOC
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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-24-2018, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Springs, torsional sway bars, and geometry have been around a lot longer than 17 years. If what you've got works for you then run COA as is. Just make sure you've got reliable brakes and tires, and can pass tech.
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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 01:59 AM
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COTA? Hell yes! Drive what you bring there. Just follow Crew Chief Pat on proper PM before. And a coach for the first day, along with track insurance. You will earn your trophy!
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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 03:19 AM
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Nice thread. Loads of useful info. Thanks for everyones contributions!
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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 11:11 AM
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Thanks to Bill, I’ve taken up the track addiction as well. Sadly, I don’t get out there as much as I’d like to due to work and family commitments. I’ve run my 01’ mostly stock, except for upgraded brake pads, a MRT CAI intake, and 93 tune. After running at Carolina Motorsports Park with Ed and Bill last fall, I decided to upgrade the suspension components. I upgraded to Steeda upper and lower rear control arms, Steeda front and rear sway bars, along with their Sport Springs (250lb progressive rate rear, 650 lb linear rate front), offset front steering rack bushings, Steeda X2 ball joints, Steeda’s upgraded front sway bar mounts, along with their bumpsteer kit, CC plates, and k-member brace. I upgraded to Koni Sport adjustable shocks and had all bushings replaced with poly units. I upgraded to braided brake lines, EBC Yellow Stuff brake pads, and slotted rotors. I added a 3” Kenny Brown brake duct cooling kit. I finished it off with an MGW shifter. I haven’t had an opportunity to take it to the track since the upgrades. I can’t wait. Overall, the ride quality is still good. This is important since 3213 is a daily driver as well as a weekend cruiser.
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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, you went all in when you decided to upgrade! Hope you can really notice the improvements when you get to the track.


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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 03:56 PM
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I was originally thinking of only upgrading a few things, but then I decided to upgrade several items at once so that the parts would compliment each other better. I tried to keep with the same manufacturer for the same reason. It seems to handle a lot better with the new components, but I won’t be able to fully evaluate it until I make it to the track again. I’m still on the fence about 200 vs 300 utqg tires. I know 200 will be better on track, but since I daily drive the car I’m concerned about the trade offs (primarily wet handling for Florida summer rains). I’d love to hear thoughts from others who have driven on both extensively.
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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Because the 200 are softer, you will get better grip all around, depending on the tread pattern. I like the Michelins, I think Bill uses them as well. Mine are Pilot Sport AS-3, I think the newer one is AS-4? Mine are 500's but I think there is Pilot Sport Cup and they are 300 or 200. Check Tire Rack, they have all the specs and choices. I've never driven the car in the rain, so I'm not much help there.
Here's 3 well known in the 200-300 wear range: Pirelli P Zero, Continental Conti Sport, Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. They are all $200+ a piece.


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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 10:34 PM
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Thanks for the recommendations! I’ve been running Michelin Pilot Super Sports for awhile and love them. Great grip, nice ride, and fairly quiet. Also very good in rain. They handle very predictably on track but give up a bit of grip when pushed hard for 20 min, as expected. They also last for a very long time for how well they handle (~30k). The newer Pilot Sport 4s is the tire I am thinking of eventually replacing them with. Options for extreme performance 245/45/17 have become limited due to lowered popularity in that size. I would like to keep the stock 17x8 on the car due to 1) clearance is already tight with the Steeda components (a steering rack limiter was necessary on one side to prevent the tire from contacting the sway bar), and 2) I trust the strength of the OEM wheels over many of the potentially poorly cast aftermarket options. The Dunlop Direza Star Spec 2 is being phased out and the RE-71R has too short life a life for a DD tire for their high cost (despite supposedly being an awesome gripping but noisy tire). I was considering the Falken Azenna RT615k+. The newer “+” is supposed to be an excellent gripping tire that is liveable for DD. Plus, they’re pretty cheap so I don’t mind replacing them more often if they wear poorly.
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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 04:02 AM
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Hi, I will chime in about hollow_point and his daily driver/HPDE 01 Bullitt. But first I plead guilty about being his track crack dealer.
Brian is a scientist by trade, researching all. He totally balances the razor's edge in mods between daily driver and road course racer. The recent mod's are excellent, with the advice of Steeda and me, maintaining the balance of daily driver and track machine, especially since his wife rides shotgun locally. (Wife got Brian a pair of track driving shoes... and a new life insurance policy.)

UTOG is a measure of wear within the maker's tyre models. UTOG does not translate exactly between other maker's models.

I agree on quality rims. Especially with just 1 set for daily driver and road course. And as one goes wider rims, the law of unintended consequences of vehicle modifications kicks in.

If you like the Michelins, stick with them. Looks like the Sport 4S are the successor to the Super Sports. 300 UTOG is a good overall rating for the balance of daily driver/road course.

BLLTT runs 3 wheel sets.
Michelin Sport A/S3 on the OEM Bullitt rims for local and road trips. (UTOG 500). Good in rain and all conditions. Comfortable. Yes, it gets cold in N FL and BLLTT does run north to VA during the winter. Good overall tyre.
BFG Sport Comp 2 (UTOG 340) to go to the track, wet or cool weather on the track. Chew them up at the price point.
BFG R-1 for the track, dry and warm weather. But have to get pressure dialed in for the day.
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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 07:29 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, Bill. And also, thank you for admitting to your track-crack dealing ways. You're a very effective dealer. Too effective if I'm honest.

You're right in that I analyze and overthink pretty much everything. I guess that's why I enjoy being a scientist--I get my fix that way. You're also probably spot on regarding the Michelin Pilot 4s tires. For the 1-2 times I get to the track during the year, they offer better DD compliance. I can't say I've ever really been disappointed at the track with the Pilot Super Sports, which probably has a lot to due with my lack of driving skills to push them hard enough. They've always been very predictable. They're also a pleasure to daily with as they're exceptionally quiet and have a nice ride quality to boot. I guess that's why they've become the industry standard on most OEM sport models. The reason for considering the rt615k+ was knowing that I might be able to pick up a bit more grip on track. Reviews seem to suggest they're pretty decent at DD as well. The Falkens run $553 a set to Michelins $847, so the price is right. Although I don't have a problem with higher cost tires if it means higher quality. I've never driven a car with Falkens in the past, but the new(ish) "+" intrigue me. Perhaps TireRack will conduct a test with the tires soon so I have some idea on how they compare to the 4s, despite being in a difference performance category.
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post #41 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 03:41 PM

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My thoughts on building any good track/street Mustang is start with a solid chassis. Full length sub-frame connectors and strut tower brace are a must. No matter how good the suspension and brakes are if the chassis is flexing then they are not working as well as they could be. As you move towards more track use I would start looking at a bolt in roll bar.

The shop I worked at sold and installed several lines of suspension but I really liked Maximum Motorsports. I worked with them at an NASA American Iron race at VIR back in 03 . They still have the article posted on their site about the trip. They flew in most of their crew, a bunch of tools, equipment and parts. Worked with all of the racers that were running their suspension components with corner weights, tuning or what ever else was needed and there was a lot need. We even built the front runner in AI a front splitter and rear wing with parts bought from the local hardware store. Unfortunately he had to make evasive maneuvers in the uphill esses and ripped the splitter off about half way through the race. While he had it, it worked well. Just talking with them and some of the testing that they did was very impressive. The fit and finish was better than any of the other suppliers except possibly Steeda. At the time Steeda did not have as much to offer as they do now.

As hollow_point did on his '01 I like sticking to one manufacturer, most of us are not engineers and even if we are do not have the necessary tools, equipment or track time to truly evaluate each component we bolt onto our cars. Let them do all the testing and you reap the benefits. I have driven quite a few very ill tempered cars where the owner threw on some "performance" springs with out knowing what they really were. Or doing springs without upgrading the dampeners.

Serpent mentioned the IRS swap from a Cobra. We had several customers that had Cobras and did HPDE events on a regular basis. I was never impressed with Fords job on the IRS. They have terrible wheel hop on hard acceleration, cook the differential fluid and terrible suspension geometry (when you have to run a rear spring rate almost equal to your front something ain't right). If you track an 99-04 IRS car I would look at a rear diff cooler to keep things alive. When the Bob Bondurant School was running Ford products they could not get the IRS Cobras to handle the way they wanted to for school cars and had Roush swap in solid axles with their Panhard and Torque arm set up. I don't think they ever sold this rear suspension set up to the public.

I know there was not any specific set up information here but just my general thoughts on building a track ready Mustang.

Chris
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