[bullit4404]

When I was a young lad a fast car was anything that could go 0-100 MPH in 20 seconds. An 08/09 Bullit will do it in 12.6 seconds! A 2019 Bullit will go 0-115 MPH in ~12.5 seconds!! Obviously a new definition is needed. The generally accepted definition of a fast car now is based on power to weight, and that is 10 pounds per horsepower is considered fast. An 01 Bullit is ~12.9 Lbs/HP (quick), and 08/09 ~10.8 Lbs/HP (Fast), and a 2019 is about 8.3 Lbs/HP (FAST). The advertised weights of each car, in ascending order are 3360 Lbs, 3520 Lbs, and ~4000 Lbs for the new Bullit! More about weight later.
So what's my point? We all know an expert driver in an 01 can be competitive with a rookie in a new Mustang, on a tight track. The 01 Bullit is a great momentum car, and the 08/09 is for me, the perfect balance of weight and horsepower. The big difference is when you get out on a fast track, the driver of the new Bullit has to make a big brain adjustment. In a new Bullit you get to 150 MPH probably 6 seconds faster than an 08! Add to that greater top speed and a lot more weight to manage your brake and steering inputs, you are likely to "run out of talent" without proper Adrenalin and Endorphin management. Your senses need training and repetition to adjust to the greater acceleration, narrowed field of vision and general input overload.
Police officers, who drive fast frequently, learn to manage their emotions and brain chemistry. I am quite frankly concerned about some of the high powered cars that are being sold today. We, as drivers are not capable of handling these vehicles safely at high rates of speed and handling without training. My 08 Bullit is plenty fast and I don't think I'd be comfortable in anything with much more performance. I've driven a
Trans Am car a few laps for fun and 2600 Lbs and nearly 800 HP is plain scary. (That's about 3.5 Lbs/HP!)
So how do we manage these Beasts. I suggest first, a skid control school, (good for adjusting to the feel of the weight and power) and then a good HSDE with an experienced instructor. When I used to instruct, I would only allow rookies to lap the track in third gear, at first. Once they had learned the "line," we would work on braking, shifting, and throttle management until we had a nice momentum and pace going. Only then would I let them drive to their max comfort level. And, every driver has a different skill level. They need to know how far their talent goes before they brain fade. Driving fast is a skill that requires frequent "refreshment," and it is a perishable skill. I'm definitely not as fast as I was at 30, but experience is helpful. I would never race competitively now, because I know what can happen and I've seen how long it takes for bones to heal properly. I am much more "risk adverse" now.
Years ago I built a car for a young kid to regional race. This kid was so talented, his Dad and I had to put a lower horsepower engine in the car to slow him down. He was borderline reckless, and it took a whole season for him to learn his limits. The next year we put the "big motor" in the car and he was on the podium in every race he ran.
So for God's sake, if you are moving up 160 or 220 HP, get some training. And once again if you are tired or hot at the track, come in before you run out of talent.

 

[Matt Maran]

Great points. I like how Ford has the Adrenaline Academy for Focus RS buyers (and I believe Fiesta ST and Focus ST buyers too), and there's also a program for GT350 buyers. It would be cool if they offered a similar package for the Bullitt. I've participated in the "new buyer driving schools" for both McLaren and Cadillac CTS-V/ATS-V. The McLaren program was at Sonoma and only half a day so they didn't have time to teach much. The Cadillac V-Performance Academy was a full 2 day program at Spring Mountain Motor Resort that was excellent with awesome instructors and definitely helped me become a much better driver, both on track and off. I'm glad to see more and more manufacturers offering this (most are free with purchase of the car too), to help people learn how to safely handle their new car.

P.S. I haven't seen a published weight for the 2019 Bullitt myself but 4,400 lbs sounds too high since a regular 2018 GT with the Performance Pack is only 3,878 lbs.

 

[VIC-TIM]

well said. we see way too many videos of people purchasing these high hp cars and they crash them leaving the dealership. then you have those that have a 220hp car, then throw the boost to it with new internals and a shot on it and now running 800 and they wonder why they crash their cars.

as Peter Parker's Uncle said..." With great power, comes great responsibility". getting annoyed in traffic and hitting the loud pedal can have disastrous results. I think if you go out and, at least with new cars, purchase one of these mega beasts, you should have to have some kind of training with it. OTJ training in this arena......not good.

 

[pwd72s]

You youngsters have fun at the track. I've been there-done that. These days, I'll take a nice air conditioned pool hall.

Damned good advice, by the way. The SCCA has some great driving programs...I'd suggest doing the training before venturing out on the track.

https://www.scca.com/

 

[TrueBlue02058]

I guess the record for the Dodge Hellcat was a few years ago when some fool took delivery of his new Hellcat and disengaged the Traction Control as he was leaving the Dealership and 45 seconds later he wrapped the new car around a pole. Traction Control is your Friend. I only disengage the Traction Control on my 01 when going in a straight line with no witnesses.

 

[bullit4404]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Matt, sorry, I got the weight from the Ford Canada website (Under specifications), GT Premium 1995 KG x 2.2 for pounds=4389 pounds. Not surprising, a late model S-197 was over 3800 lbs. Maybe the cars are heavier in Canada?

Matt, I checked the US website and it says ~3800 pounds for the GT, base weight and even if you add all options, 4000+ lbs seems right, so something is wrong somewhere? So, we'll say ~ 4000 lbs. Made the correction in the thread.

 

[VIC-TIM]

Yep, same with the Viper, have seen them racked up leaving the dealership.

 

[greenbull4439]

Wish I had 500 less lbs in the 01.

Or 100 more hp and 14 inch brakes.

Most new cars FAR exceed their drivers capabilities. My .02

"We play with the toys the gods give us." - Odysseus

 

[bullit4404]

Kurtis
Kick out the passenger, that's just dead weight and upsets your set up. You drive the wheels off that thing.
Ever tried R compound tires, they are magic on a momentum car like yours.

 

[Steve68Cougar]

A lot of truth in your post. It's a lot easier to drive a slow car fast than a fast car fast. It's not uncommon for my relatively stock '08 to run faster times at the drag strip than modified ones. It pretty much comes down to it being easier for me to put power to the ground. I get out on them and then they fly past me on the top end. Road course and autocross are similar. I've only run at Gingerman and Hallett road courses, but both of them are pretty short and technical. I can be full throttle most of the time once I get the suspension dialed in. What kills my time is on braking, which is usually done way too early. I guess I'm not that brave or experienced enough to reliably get maximum braking. I think the new Bullitt will be a TON of fun on any type of track you put it on. I still have hopes of getting one and look forward to sneaking up on the performance potential of the car. Even if Ford doesn't do a track day for new owners, I still have it on my bucket list to head for their driving school. It's probably the best money spent on making your car go faster around a track, no matter what you drive.

 

[bullit4404]

You get a nicely set up 08, they are pretty hard to overtake on a technical track. The braking thing just takes practice. (And good brakes) As always, good input Steve.

 

[Tony Alonso]

Matt, I checked the US website and it says ~3800 pounds for the GT, base weight and even if you add all options, 4000+ lbs seems right, so something is wrong somewhere? So, we'll say ~ 4000 lbs. Made the correction in the thread.

Corner weights on my '15 GT with 1/8 tank of gas and nobody and then somebody (not me at 230lbs) in the car...mind you, it does not have the heavier brakes, wheel/tires, and suspension/chassis components like the '19 Bullitt will.

 

[bullit4404]

So 3800+ with a full tank seems about right on your car. Add a bit for MagneRide and electronics pack and you are sniffing 4000?
With a driver you are there for sure, just sayin. Your weights look good, man.

 

[tossass4370]

Wow, all the above is so totally true.
My opinion is based on road course addiction.
High HP/ advanced computer does not make a safe fast car. It is still the Driver!
With the new sports car evolution of HIGH HP/ advanced computer, the S197 4.6 NA is now a "medium" momentum performer. The newer model 5.0 Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros have the edge on HP-weight with the advanced computer, so they can blast down the straights and the computer saves the driver crappy handling turns.
Where would a GT350 be without the advanced computer? On frequent agricultural experiences or the wall!

Steve is totally correct that a slow car is easier to go fast. Why, because the Driver learns to be a momentum driver, learning skills of inputs, handling and using all the track, not just pressing the go pedal. Turns are where the speed is. Smooth in, fast out. Easy to say, hard to learn.
The 01 and 08/09 Bullitts NA force a driver to learn DRIVING if they want to earn a pass by from newer High HP/advanced computer cars.
A 1 day track event is not a learning experience but 1 a taste of frustration. I do not go to 1 day events any more. 2 day events only. Why? Day 1 is learning-refreshment of skills, either with an instructor or solo. After a good meal with track friends, review of video and sleep, Day 2 is performance of skills learned, earning pass-by's and ending with glow of winning your trophy, driving your car home.
Pat, you are totally correct on taking the emotions out! When I would pursue a car, learned to just stay in their review mirror, push them and wait for them to wreck on a turn. And if they ran on foot, my K-9 partner was ready... There can be no emotions on track, just total FOCUS. When the red mist happens, time for a cool down lap and pit.
Pat- I have had 4 great instructors, each at different tracks. When we meet again, I still grab them for a session to tighten that NUT behind the wheel at that track.
For the 08/09 Bullitts , TractionControl is our friend. The computer reacts faster than the driver. But the result is higher rear brake temps and wear. But it saves the oversteer in turns for the solid rear axle. Collateral damage to pads, rotors and LS differential.

R compound tyres.
YES! But is a LEARNING experience beyond forgiving street tyres. Have an instructor versed in R compound-solid rear axle racing experience. On the turns, driver has to stay consistent throttle. A little throttle lift on turns before apex and off track away you go! But rewarded with more pass-by's on high HP cars. Can even play with the Miatas on technical courses. BLLTT now has a trailer hitch. Drive to track with the street UHP low UTOG tyres to track, ready for rain or low temps. Good temps, dry track, throw the R compounds tyres on. Earn some pass-bys, even from Miata's.
Ross Bentley did a recent post on Winding Road. Wrote on our conditioned street braking vs road course braking. We are conditioned from street braking of initial slow, gradual increasing pressure to harder stop braking. He recommends the opposite for road course. For turns, to initial hard brake, then to softer braking just before brake release and turn in, so the suspension is less loaded, reacts quicker to the turn input. Shortens the braking distance. For us momentum cars, smoother in, faster out. Hmmm?
The car I respect most on track-Miata with a good driver.

Headed in the AM to check out Charlotte Motor Speedway new ROVAL for 2 days of Bullitt fun.

 

[ZEN357]

Trick Flow top end kit from Trick Flow will get you 390HP, add a Borla Exhaust with BK headers, E3 Diamond Fire Spark Plugs and an MSD-DIS ignition and you wil get close to what you are looking for.

 

[bullit4404]

All good input Bill and Zen. Driving a car fast is definitely a learned skill. Driving safely on the road requires a refresh once in a while to remind of bad habits.
Have a great time at CMS Bill! I built a Solo 1 Miata for a buddy, that thing was like a little slot car. Just wind it up and let it go. Ontario "street stock" champion multiple times.
The rest of you, beware of the "red mist," a good term to remember.

 

[greenbull4439]

Kurtis
Kick out the passenger, that's just dead weight and upsets your set up. You drive the wheels off that thing.
Ever tried R compound tires, they are magic on a momentum car like yours.

Was just qualified solo for this driving group!

No, I have never tried R compound tires. I usually drive my car 4+ hours to the track so I run street tires. Michelin Pilot Super Sports in the stock size. 245/45 i believe it is.

 

[ARMY TC]

Lots of Horsepower!

I had an 01 BULLITT #0159 and an 08 BULLITT #5573. I never raced or abused these cars. They had plenty of "fun" power.
I sold my 2008 BULLITT and bought a new 2010 Ford Shelby GT500. Honestly, the car was absolutely crazy with power. Going from 315 to 540 horsepower was an experience. Yes, before you really get into that power, you better know what you are doing!
A lot of folks would ask me if I ever really got into that horsepower.......my response........my driving skills will never keep me out of trouble. Driving a fast car occasionally is a road to disaster.
So be careful out there..............
I've seen too many gray haired fools turn a nice evening at a car cruise into crazy situations.
If you like to brag.......get that 800 horsepower car and a set of training wheels!

ARMY TC

 

[bullit4404]

A GT 500 is a real beast. Not for kids or daredevils.

 

[VIC-TIM]

the other unsaid reality is......in all honesty, when are you going to use all that power unless you race the car. my car has significantly less than a gt 500, has much more than it came with and I still don't use what I have. i putz around like most people, dodging the texters, on the phoners and the rest of the idiots who are more interested in what is happening either on their phone or all around them than driving their car. I have to watch out for them since they won't do it for themselves.

been walking out in public lately around a lot of people like at a mall? ....do you spend most of your time dodging them as they walk, heads down in their phone and no idea who or what is in front of them? car is no different.

does it feel good to go fast, of course. is it wise...not nowadays. I'd spend my money more on brakes and suspension in order to stop to avoid the others or being able to dodge them with complete control. with all that power, you may be able to (out)run (them to get away,) but you still can't hide....they are out there and they will find you!!!!!!!!