I don't know about the old timers,But I'am still here not as much as I used to be though.Still have the Bullitt too.I didn't get mine until August though,ran up on it by accident.I didn't even know they made them in black.I remember running home and checking the artical in 5.0 mag to see what colors they came in.Went back and drove it home.Didn't really care for the DHG.