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I have heard that the 2011 and newer mustangs handle better than the 2005-2009 mustangs. I don't see how there could be a significant difference seeing how the only chassis change was eps instead of hydraulic assist. Can anybody who has upgraded to the coyote stangs verify?
 

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I went from my '08 Bullitt to a '14 GT w/the track pack so my impression may be skewed a bit. Before I bought my TP equipped car, however, I also drove a base model '14 GT. Even that car matched and exceeded the handling/braking performance of the Bullitt. And there's not much comparison to the power- the 5.0 will murder the 4.6 10x a day.

The last gen S197's (11-14) are put together tighter. The tolerances are closer so the car just feels more stuck together. Throw in the track pack and it's on another plane. By far, my current ride is the best handling, braking & performing Stang I've owned and it's the best put together too.

It's more of a qualitative thing than quantitative- the sum is greater than the individual parts. If you drive one, you'll feel it immediately, especially if you drive a '13 or 14.

Having said all that, I'd still rather have my damn Bullitt back!!!!
Lee
 

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I went from my '08 Bullitt to a '14 GT w/the track pack so my impression may be skewed a bit. Before I bought my TP equipped car, however, I also drove a base model '14 GT. Even that car matched and exceeded the handling/braking performance of the Bullitt. And there's not much comparison to the power- the 5.0 will murder the 4.6 10x a day.

The last gen S197's (11-14) are put together tighter. The tolerances are closer so the car just feels more stuck together. Throw in the track pack and it's on another plane. By far, my current ride is the best handling, braking & performing Stang I've owned and it's the best put together too.

It's more of a qualitative thing than quantitative- the sum is greater than the individual parts. If you drive one, you'll feel it immediately, especially if you drive a '13 or 14.
Totally agree. The '11 is my 4th s197. Definitely the best.
 

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Some of it may simply be down to better tires (you'd be amazed at what a set of proper performance tires will do to the way your car handles).

Our Bullitts came all-season BFGs. I think many of the 11-14s came with Pirellis that were probably of more sporting pretensions.
 

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As far as I know most of the setup on the newer models is just down to shocks/struts/springs. all of the mounting points and geometry are the same. Nothing you couldn't really do ta a pre 2011 model. The 2010 track pack was just the Bullitt suspension essentially. Part of me wonders what a new Bullitt (with good tires) would do compared to a 2011+ (suspension wise, the motor is a whole other animal). My Bullitt for instance is on stock suspension, and at 70,000 miles im sure I'm due for some new shocks/struts. I drove a 2014 Base model, and while I agree with Lee the build quality was certainly there, I didn't particularly notice better handling.
 

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In fairness, my Bullitt had about 65k on the odo when I test drove the base model '14 GT. My B's suspension was fully stock so it was definitely worn a bit. That may have led me to feel that even the base model GT suspension on the last gen S197 was superior. At the very least, it was on par w/the Bullitt's. The other aspects of the newer GT,- build quality, noise insulation, etc.- further add to the perception of higher quality/performance.

The track pack only added to my previous impression- far superior to the B's. The car flat out handles, even w/the solid rear axle. Throw in a set of Steeda lowering springs, like I did, and it improved cornering even more so. And them Brembos, crikey, can they stop a car.
Lee
 

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Stock for stock, and not counting the new '15+ cars, the newer 'stang is going to ride better than the B, but..... add suspensions components and you'll be very surprised at how well these cars can handle. At my last HPDE (driving school) I ran, the instructor said he was very impressed at how well my bullitt ran at VIR. That speaks volumes about how well these '08's can be setup and I have a modest setup on my B.

I'll also go on record here to say the bullitt right out of the box really has a crap ride despite what the promotion literature says. As noted above, springs, dampers, sways and tires can transform this car.
 

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Agree with the above...the stock Bullitt suspension many not wallow like my dad's old '56 Buick, but it's no great shakes on canyon roads. I'm talking about my '09.

But, for the driving I do these days, it gets me to where I want to go. So, since I'm not crazy enough about the car to want to modify, I soldier on.

Haven't driven a 5.0 with Track Pack, but I'd imagine they'd do a lot better in the twisties than our stock Bullitts.

(edit) All that said, and based on the reviews I've read, the cars with independent rear suspension are another leap forward in handling, while the 350GTR is WOW!
 

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New Mustangs always handle and perform better then its previous version, with that said a person has to ask himself what is important , settling in or keep searching for the Car of your dreams.
Try to convince a guy who owns a 1966 2+2 to move up to a better Stang. A 66 doesn't handle good, stop good or even perform well. But he loves it the same and he wouldn't consider selling.
 

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I had some suspension upgrades on 4186, but kept the stock struts/shocks. Ride was definitely better than stock.

My change to a 13 Boss 302 comes with significantly superior handling on the stock setup, even compared with the upgraded Bullitt. I'm running the suspension at 3 out of 5 stiffness and expect even more improvement dialed up to 5. The car is much quicker and pulls through all gears and at speed. It's hard to believe it's the same chassis.
 

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Yeah, but the '66 Fastback is still (to my eyes) the best looking Mustang ever. Total class, looks wise.
 

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As far as I know most of the setup on the newer models is just down to shocks/struts/springs. all of the mounting points and geometry are the same. Nothing you couldn't really do ta a pre 2011 model. The 2010 track pack was just the Bullitt suspension essentially. Part of me wonders what a new Bullitt (with good tires) would do compared to a 2011+ (suspension wise, the motor is a whole other animal). My Bullitt for instance is on stock suspension, and at 70,000 miles im sure I'm due for some new shocks/struts. I drove a 2014 Base model, and while I agree with Lee the build quality was certainly there, I didn't particularly notice better handling.
My Bullitt has Michelin Pilot Super Sports and they have completely transformed the way the car drives. The Ford Racing handling pack took things up another peg or two. But I can't stress enough the impact excellent tires can make on the way your car drives (especially if you're still on the stock BFGs).
 

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YEP
 

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Yeah, but the '66 Fastback is still (to my eyes) the best looking Mustang ever. Total class, looks wise.
You make an offer to trade a '65 or '66 Fastback to my wife and, well, the Bullitt would be gone in a heartbeat (as long as it was not red).
 

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If you click on the link below you will notice the vented plastic cover on 2010/up Mustangs. If you look closely you will notice a pair of bolts perpendicular to the main K frame. These are the bolts that hold on the additional stiffening framework that comes on the later Mustangs which adds to overall strength for handling purposes.

This box shaped device is held on with 8 heavy bolts and must be removed to do major stuff like replacing the anti-sway bar, putting headers on, etc.

Pretty impressive upgrade and might be retrofitted to earlier s197s.

As I have posted before, these later Mustangs also have much more sound deadening added as well, most notably in the fender wells.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...ar-up-middle-front-cradle-2011-underbody2.jpg
 

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How would structure in front of the wheels improve handling? -looks like it simply reinforces the bumper adding unnecessary front sprung weight unbalancing the car. :confused:
And as far as sound deadening, no kidding, they overdid it and addressed the complaints of caddy-like isolation with this piece of reverse-engineering wonderment -


Bottom line is that the Bullitt was the pinacle of perfect balance in an American sports car - any attempt to improve on that perfection needs a fix to bring it back to a level of balance.
:dhg08:
 

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I am a auto body man for over 30 years. I have been doing a LOT of I-Car training lately so out new body shop can get some manufacturers certifications.
the biggest reason the newer cars handle better is because the body is much stiffer. it may be basically the same chassis but it is significantly upgraded.
with newer crash standards, especially side impact, they had to use much more high strength and ultra high strength steel.
when using the high and ultra high strength steel you have to use more spot welds to prevent the lower strength steel falling off the higher strength steel in a crash. more welds = stronger structure. also when welding high strength steel you have to use different techniques when welding. this makes stronger welds. stronger welds = stronger structure.
also in the last few years they have made more grades of high strength steel. when the bullitt was made there was about 5 grades of high strength steel. today there are about 50 different grades. the strongest is boron added ultra high strength steel. this steel is so strong and hard it takes over 50 tons of force to bend it slightly. it's almost impossible to drill it. and it's difficult to weld it. you will find this steel in the pillar behind the door, inside of the door, and in the floor by your feet to the upper cowl. this makes a safe car when someone crashes into the side of your car. there is some boron steel in the Bullitt mustang but there is more the 10 and up mustangs. there is significantly more in the 15 and up mustang. also boron steel is lighter than the same thickness regular steel.
 

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There are numerous reasons that the newer cars handle better than ours - pretty much everything has been mentioned. I think nearly everything can be retrofitted to ours, with the exception of the rear upper control arm (slightly different geometry). The EPS doesn't do anything handling wise other than provide a prescribed feedback that can make it feel better. Most suspension parts from the aftermarket are labeled as '05-'14, so there's obviously not a lot of difference. They did use the Bullitt suspension development as groundwork for the later suspensions, but they incorporated other technology to make it even better.
 

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I am a auto body man for over 30 years. I have been doing a LOT of I-Car training lately so out new body shop can get some manufacturers certifications.
the biggest reason the newer cars handle better is because the body is much stiffer. it may be basically the same chassis but it is significantly upgraded.
with newer crash standards, especially side impact, they had to use much more high strength and ultra high strength steel.
when using the high and ultra high strength steel you have to use more spot welds to prevent the lower strength steel falling off the higher strength steel in a crash. more welds = stronger structure. also when welding high strength steel you have to use different techniques when welding. this makes stronger welds. stronger welds = stronger structure.
also in the last few years they have made more grades of high strength steel. when the bullitt was made there was about 5 grades of high strength steel. today there are about 50 different grades. the strongest is boron added ultra high strength steel. this steel is so strong and hard it takes over 50 tons of force to bend it slightly. it's almost impossible to drill it. and it's difficult to weld it. you will find this steel in the pillar behind the door, inside of the door, and in the floor by your feet to the upper cowl. this makes a safe car when someone crashes into the side of your car. there is some boron steel in the Bullitt mustang but there is more the 10 and up mustangs. there is significantly more in the 15 and up mustang. also boron steel is lighter than the same thickness regular steel.
Yeah, if I crashed every day, I'd want more of that boron for sure.
At least my crumple zones are more likely to crumple. :smile:
 

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I gotta chime in....

Pale hit it on the nose with the statement regarding balance. 6043 is the best balanced car I have ever driven...stock or modded.

Nelsons nugget about wanting his 08 B back speaks volumes.

Merry Krautmas and don't forget to feed the Krampus!
 
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