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I know that Ford engineered the Bullitt engine so that it can somehow sense the octane in the gas and recalibrate itself for more horsepower and torque. Does anyone know if this is unique to the Bullitt engine and how it works? And does anyone know what mods can be done to the engine to get more horsepower and torque without sacrificing the engine recalibration feature? Since I am a cheap b****** and don't want to spend the extra $'s for the higher octane everytime I fill up, but I would like to put in the good stuff occasionally to feel the extra power, I want to keep the recalibration feature.:tongue:
 

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So far no one has been able to keep the dual octane sensing strategy when flashing the ECM. Until they find a way, you'll have to get multiple tunes and switch back and forth for what you need. Also, without any engine/exhaust mods, the current tuners will only get you about 5-10HP at best on the Bullitt. There are other points to just doing a tune such as slightly better throttle response, default traction controll off, etc- but it really isn't worth the price of a tune for just the slight HP increase IMO.
 

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at this point the Bullitt is the only vehicle from Ford with that strategy. They have said it will likely be used on future offerings though.
It doesn't appear other '09 Mustangs use the strategy so perhaps for the 2010 models?

So far no tuner seems to be able to duplicate it or keep the strategy in effect with their custom tunes.
 

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Martimus said:
Rumor has it that the basic capability is available in all S197 Mustangs but not enabled. Personally I'll believe it when someone proves it to me.
I have been told it is a bit of marketing hype as all cars have the same ability to adjust spark timing & fuel settings via engine knock and O2 sensors. The computer also monitors throttle opening, engine temp, air flow, manifold vacuum, engine RPM, wheel speed, etc., all factored in to adjust the tune needed for the situation at hand.

The factory tuning is always going to be more conservative than the aftermarket, even on the Bullitt.

I spoke to Dave at www.brenspeed.com today about a CAI & Tuner kit for my wife's '08 GT, and while we were on the phone I told him about my '08 Bullitt. He says they have a tune that will really wake up the Bullitt while still allow it to run safely on the 91 octane fuel we have in my area. I am going to try the GT kit out first, and if I really like it will probably go ahead and try the tune for the Bullitt.

Anthony
 

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artillerybuff said:
I have been told it is a bit of marketing hype as all cars have the same ability to adjust spark timing & fuel settings via engine knock and O2 sensors. The computer also monitors throttle opening, engine temp, air flow, manifold vacuum, engine RPM, wheel speed, etc., all factored in to adjust the tune needed for the situation at hand.
Anthony
That is only partically true. While the current sensors will adjust the "tune" down to prevent engine damage due to low octane gas, this it the first one that will adjust the tune up for better gas. In current vehicles if you put 93 octane in a car designed for 89 octane, it is just a waste of money. With the Bullitt tune, the computer will adjust itself to take advantage of the additional octane.

That is just my understanding of things but I have been know to be wrong before. :doubt:
 

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artillerybuff said:
I have been told it is a bit of marketing hype as all cars have the same ability to adjust spark timing & fuel settings via engine knock and O2 sensors. The computer also monitors throttle opening, engine temp, air flow, manifold vacuum, engine RPM, wheel speed, etc., all factored in to adjust the tune needed for the situation at hand.
The people who say that it's marketing hype don't understand the Bullitt Octane sensing. Most are also tuners who want to sell you their tune. None of them will offer a tune that will function using either Premium or Regular fuel in the same way the Bullitt can/does. Few outside Ford understand it.

Yes modern cars have the ability to adjust timing via knock and O2 sensors. They do not have the ability to burn both Regular and Premium fuel and still gain benefit from Premium while burning premium.

Any car tuned to burn regular will also bur Premium, but to no benefit.

Try burning Regular in a car tuned to burn Premium. The system won't take enough timing out to stop spark knock and rattle.

Brenspeed is a safe tuner. Ask then though if the tune they are selling was developed using a Bullit on their dyno, or is their tune for the Mustang GT.
 

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RCSignals said:
The people who say that it's marketing hype don't understand the Bullitt Octane sensing. Most are also tuners who want to sell you their tune. None of them will offer a tune that will function using either Premium or Regular fuel in the same way the Bullitt can/does. Few outside Ford understand it.

Yes modern cars have the ability to adjust timing via knock and O2 sensors. They do not have the ability to burn both Regular and Premium fuel and still gain benefit from Premium while burning premium.

Any car tuned to burn regular will also bur Premium, but to no benefit.

Try burning Regular in a car tuned to burn Premium. The system won't take enough timing out to stop spark knock and rattle.

Brenspeed is a safe tuner. Ask then though if the tune they are selling was developed using a Bullit on their dyno, or is their tune for the Mustang GT.
Okay, I guess I do not fully understand how the Bullitt tune works myself. I do totally agree with you about throwing money away on higher octane than is needed on "normal" cars. Good question to ask about the aftermarket Bullitt tune, perhaps it is just a slightly hotter GT tune... on second thought my runs so well I should probably just leave it alone. I have a bad habit of trying to squeeze more out of everything I own and it is a hard habit to break. I do need to do something with the wife's '08 GT though, it seems a bit weak compared to the Bullitt and averages approximately 5.4 less miles per gallon. I thought it would do better than that with the taller gears even though it is an auto. This is why I am looking for a CAI and tuner for it. My Bullitt averaged 24.6 on our last trip averaged over both directions at 1,200+ miles averaging 75 mph. Her GT barely gets 20 so far, but is new with less than 500 miles on it.

Thanks~ Anthony
 

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RCSignals said:
The people who say that it's marketing hype don't understand the Bullitt Octane sensing. Most are also tuners who want to sell you their tune. None of them will offer a tune that will function using either Premium or Regular fuel in the same way the Bullitt can/does. Few outside Ford understand it.

Yes modern cars have the ability to adjust timing via knock and O2 sensors. They do not have the ability to burn both Regular and Premium fuel and still gain benefit from Premium while burning premium.

Any car tuned to burn regular will also bur Premium, but to no benefit.

Try burning Regular in a car tuned to burn Premium. The system won't take enough timing out to stop spark knock and rattle.

Brenspeed is a safe tuner. Ask then though if the tune they are selling was developed using a Bullit on their dyno, or is their tune for the Mustang GT.
+2

BUT. I still think it's largely a marketing scheme, and we'll see it in the newer vehicles as well.

They somehow figured out how to incorporate variable maps, picked based on how it senses 87-93 and any mixture in between. They only way I know of that an engine can sense this is by testing the mixture via a default map. Using the known output at the 02 sensors, it can pick from the closest map it has.

Doesn't seem to far fetched that this is just a nifty way of utilizing multiple maps. Other tuned cars (VW and AUDI in particular) allow for on the fly switching of 87 and 91/93 octane maps. I believe APR is particularly known for including this feature on late model turbo tunes.

Ford just figured out how to make it switch intelligently without human intervention.

Just my $.02

Then again, how does an e85 compatible vehicle detect the fuel???

I love questions that get answered with more questions. :nerd:
 

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artillerybuff said:
Okay, I guess I do not fully understand how the Bullitt tune works myself. I do totally agree with you about throwing money away on higher octane than is needed on "normal" cars. Good question to ask about the aftermarket Bullitt tune, perhaps it is just a slightly hotter GT tune... on second thought my runs so well I should probably just leave it alone. I have a bad habit of trying to squeeze more out of everything I own and it is a hard habit to break. I do need to do something with the wife's '08 GT though, it seems a bit weak compared to the Bullitt and averages approximately 5.4 less miles per gallon. I thought it would do better than that with the taller gears even though it is an auto. This is why I am looking for a CAI and tuner for it. My Bullitt averaged 24.6 on our last trip averaged over both directions at 1,200+ miles averaging 75 mph. Her GT barely gets 20 so far, but is new with less than 500 miles on it.

Thanks~ Anthony

Check out CVA's post on his dyno experience http://www.imboc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159053

After many attempts to improve the Bullitt tune they ended up going back to stock. Not that it can't be done, but I wonder how many of the tunes being offered now are actually created using a Bullitt on the dyno for the data.
 

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jymontoya said:
+2

BUT. I still think it's largely a marketing scheme, and we'll see it in the newer vehicles as well.

They somehow figured out how to incorporate variable maps, picked based on how it senses 87-93 and any mixture in between. They only way I know of that an engine can sense this is by testing the mixture via a default map. Using the known output at the 02 sensors, it can pick from the closest map it has.

Doesn't seem to far fetched that this is just a nifty way of utilizing multiple maps. Other tuned cars (VW and AUDI in particular) allow for on the fly switching of 87 and 91/93 octane maps. I believe APR is particularly known for including this feature on late model turbo tunes.

Ford just figured out how to make it switch intelligently without human intervention.

Just my $.02

Then again, how does an e85 compatible vehicle detect the fuel???

I love questions that get answered with more questions. :nerd:
Ford did say we'd see it on other vehicles from them. I haven't of any with it yet though.

Yes the ability to select between tunes has been around, flip chips, changing by tuner, multiple tunes from manufacturer selectable by a switch, etc. That isn't quite the same, and yes the Bullitt is able to do it 'on the fly.
 

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artillerybuff said:
...... I do need to do something with the wife's '08 GT though, it seems a bit weak compared to the Bullitt and averages approximately 5.4 less miles per gallon. I thought it would do better than that with the taller gears even though it is an auto. This is why I am looking for a CAI and tuner for it. .
You can get Ford Racing part M-9603-GTB for your wife's '08. (Her car should already have the correct hood liner)

This is our Bullitt CAI except the bellows (aka elbow) does not have the silencer/resonator boxes. Includes a tune from FRPP, and if you have your dealer install it it is covered by warranty.
Shop around for the best price.
 

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RCSignals said:
You can get Ford Racing part M-9603-GTB for your wife's '08. (Her car should already have the correct hood liner)

This is our Bullitt CAI except the bellows (aka elbow) does not have the silencer/resonator boxes. Includes a tune from FRPP, and if you have your dealer install it it is covered by warranty.
Shop around for the best price.
Thanks RC, I too really like the Bullitt CAI, it is very nice setup, and the piece of mind with warranty concerns is a big plus. Best price I have seen so far for the kit is $600.00, and that compares favorably to the aftermarket kit pricing. Only thing is the others do claim more performance gains, usally an additional 5-10 HP more, possibly due to a slightly more agressive tune, plus they have more tuneability over other issues such as gear/tire changes, auto trans shift pressures/timing etc., and can be used as a scan tool to retrive codes which is really handy to be sure. They can also hold multiple tunes and can be updated fairly inexpensively later if further mods are made.

Anthony
 

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The other option is to buy the CAI pieces through Ford Parts, but in total I don't think you'd be much ahead.

A simple code reader isn't that expensive these days.
For the Ford Racing tuner if you plan any other changes such as rear ratio etc you would have to specify those at the time you order the tuner (the kit comes with a certificate you register on line to order the correct tune )

If you do more further on another tuner can aways be purchased if you need the multiple tunes. a good tuner can probably work with the FRPP tune.
An advantage of the FRPP CAI is it is 50 State legal (and CARB certified I think), and so is the tune, aside from being potentially covered under warranty. If you later obtain another tune you State Agenies would only see the 50 State certification labels from the FRPP set up.
 

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RCSignals said:
Just bought it for the wife's '08 GT; thanks RC!!!
Below is what helped me make up my mind:

Ford Racing Calibrations
The calibrations that Ford Racing provides for our cold-air and supercharger kits are done by Ford
engineers who, in many cases, worked on the actual production vehicles. No one is more familiar with
Ford engines and Ford control systems than Ford engineers. Extreme care is taken to provide as much
power and torque as can be safely delivered, but also to deliver high durability and exceptional drivability.
Most of our kits are also 50-State emissions legal and many are now even offered with a Ford Racing
limited warranty.
Here are a couple of aftermarket tuners practices that we do NOT recommend:
• Turning off the inferred catalyst, oxygen sensor and exhaust valve temperature protection logic
discussed in the previous section. This prevents the PCM from richening the A/F ratio to protect
these components which can result in more power under certain conditions. The downside is
drastically decreased durability of these expensive components. Ford Racing does not compromise
durability by turning off this calibration logic.
• They often advance spark timing to potentially unsafe levels. We test our calibrations in a wind tunnel
and in hot dry weather to verify that potentially damaging spark knock or catastrophic pre-ignition does
not occur. We also do cold weather and altitude testing as well as extensive emissions and durability
testing on several vehicles before we release a calibration to the customer. Some companies do not
realize that they need to perform this type of testing in the first place!
Automatic transmission calibration is an area that Ford Racing sets itself apart from other “tuners”. We
generally make extensive calibration changes to not only improve shift quality and give the transmission a
more performance oriented feel, but take great care to ensure that durability is not compromised to levels
we feel would be unacceptable to a customer. In development we monitor things like clutch slip times,
slip energies, band temperatures and other variables to make calibration changes as appropriate so that
the customer can be sure of a quality product that will continue to deliver improved performance in the
long term. As mentioned before, these changes are performed by the same engineers who designed and
developed the vehicles in the first place, and who are more familiar than anyone with their performance
and durability envelopes.
Some aftermarket tuners develop their calibrations exclusively on a chassis dyno and go straight to
the end customer. While dyno work is a critical part of the development process, it is only one piece
of a complex puzzle. Calibrating for wide open throttle (WOT) is generally simple, but the bulk of the
calibration effort is getting the part (and closed) throttle drivability correct. Our calibrations are developed
not only on the dyno, but also on the street for production (or better) quality drivability, and across many
vehicles to allow for manufacturing tolerances. Varied driving conditions, constant data monitoring, and
long-term testing ensure consistent drivability.
In recent years, cars and trucks have shifted toward electronic throttle control (ETC) or “drive-by-wire”
systems for packaging, cost and enhanced calibration functions. Ford Racing calibrations for ETC
vehicles take advantage of some of the increased functionality offered by these systems by changing the
relationship between the pedal and the throttle for improved “performance feel”. This allows us to provide
substantial improvements in “performance feel” even on the kits where the peak horsepower increase
might be considered modest by some. The peak power numbers do not always tell the whole story.
Why some companies claim to make more power:
Some claims are due to poor and misleading dynamometer test practices. Others are genuine but at the
expense of engine, catalyst or drivetrain durability.
Hopefully this article gives you the tools necessary to determine what is real dyno horsepower,
manipulated false horsepower and temporary horsepower waiting to cause a failure. We are confident
that as a potential customer you will agree that no one knows your car or truck better than the Ford
engineers who designed it in the first place. Our kits offer the best blend of performance, durability and
drivability that exists on the market today.


Sorry about the long post from Ford Racing, but it is good info... Anthony
 
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