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What was the fastest stock big block engine from back in the day? It can't be a race engine, I mean one that was sold to the general public, such as the Hemi 426. I'm assuming that was the fastest engine of it's time...was it? The Boss 429 comes close at 375 HP vs the Hemi's 425 HP. I know the 428 CJ was underrated at 335 HP, and it actually produced 400~410 HP, but that still doesn't compete with the Hemi 426's 425 HP. How much did the Boss 429 REALLY produce? How about the Hemi 426? I mean to the wheel, not flywheel. The 429 CJ produced 370 HP...still not enough. And the 460? 360 HP.

So, lets recap, plus a few more engines.

Hemi 426 - 425 HP (How about to the wheel?)
428 - 360 HP (How about to the wheel?)
428 CJ - 335 HP (More like 410 HP) (How about to the wheel?)
429 - 375 HP (What platform was this engine?) (How about to the wheel?)
429 CJ - 370 HP (This is what confuses me...the 429 produces more than the 429 CJ. I know the CJ was using the 385 design...so what did the 429 use...the FE?) (How about to the wheel?)
460 - 360 HP (How about to the wheel?)
427 - 425 HP (How comes it was never used in street cars for speed, or am I wrong?) (How about to the wheel?)

I know the 427 SOCH was probably the fastest engine of it's time, for Ford at least, but it was made for racing, and it was even banned from Nascar. What about the 427, was it 100% Nascar, or did it have any roots in general public vehicles? That article says it it was a racing engine, but it shows the engine on a Galaxie. How comes it was so slow? If it was popped in a Mustang, how would it perform? So, what was the power of those engines on the list to the wheel, and who held the title for fastest overall big block engine of it's time, whether it be strictly for racing or not, such as the 427 SOCH?
 

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The fastest stock (production) cars, based on acceleration (see note at bottom regarding "acceleration"), were the following:

1968 Plymouth S/S Barracuda / 426 Hemi V8 / 525HP
1968 Dodge S/S Hemi Dart / 426 Hemi V8 / 525HP
1969 Corvette Stingray / LT2 454 V8 / 465HP

These ares are still rated #2, #3, and #5 respectively in the "fastest production cars" category lists. Just this year (2007), were the '68 Hemi's toppled from their #1 and #2 positions by the 2007 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 (8.0 W16 engine, 1,001HP). Here is the list of the top five (5) fastest accelerating cars from a standing start:

1) 2007 Bugatti 10.2/142.9mph
2) 1968 Plymouth Barracuda 10.5/130mph ***
3) 1968 Dodge S/S Hemi Dart 10.5/129mph
4) 2007 Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 10.6/139.8mph
5) 1969 Corvette Stingray 10.6/132mph

Except for the 2007's, the HP ratings for the older cars were the factory horsepower ratings; some of these engines were grossly & highly underrated for insurance reasons. For the Hemi's, the car owner was lucky to be able to wind down the windows. Dyno tests on these cars were shown to have anywhere from 575 to 710 horsepower in stock form.

If you find one of these cars, let me know! :wink: :grin:

*** The hood and fenders were fiberglass. The front bumper and doors were light-gauge steel. Getting the 426 Hemi into the engine bay took some modifications. The battery was moved to the truck. Both the right shock tower and master cylinder had to be moved. Custom headers, shift linkages for the four-speeds, and special rear-axle assemblies were from Hurst. Taken from http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/FAPC/PlymouthSSBarracuda.htm.


Note: Why "acceleration" and not "top speed"? Simple, top speed is only for bragging rights, it'll never be used in the real world. Acceleration, on the other hand, is used every day and these test times can be duplicated on any strip in North America.
 

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Hard to say today, horsepower was rated different back then. I did see on speed tv a few years ago dream car garage did a big block muscle car shoot out awsome stuff try to watch it if you can they rerun it on holidays.
 

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what about the yenko camaros and the shelby gt500s. these cars were all 11.0 flat in the 1/4. probobly in the top 10s. and dont forget the 454 LS6 chevelles.
 

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Mr.BULLITT said:
what about the yenko camaros and the shelby gt500s. these cars were all 11.0 flat in the 1/4. probobly in the top 10s. and dont forget the 454 LS6 chevelles.
For the Camaro's and Shelby's below were the highest rated models/year. Don't forget these were off-the-line cars, no mods, and available to the general public given their respective years:

Rank...Year...Manufacturer...Model..........Engine........HP....1/4.....MPH......Source
# 57...2007...Ford...........Shelby GT500...5.4L V8 S/C...500...12.7....114.2....Motor Trend
# 58...1969...Chevrolet......Camaro.........ZL1 427 V8....430...12.76...107......Muscular Review
# 99...1970...Chevrolet......Chevelle SS....LS6 454 V8....450...13.12...107.01...Car Craft

Don't forget track conditions, weather, drivers, altitude, and wheels used will affect these times, but this list is what is.

You can check out one list at http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm where these stats were derived.
 

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SmokinBullitt said:
For the Camaro's and Shelby's below were the highest rated models/year. Don't forget these were off-the-line cars, no mods, and available to the general public given their respective years:

Rank...Year...Manufacturer...Model..........Engine........HP....1/4.....MPH......Source
# 57...2007...Ford...........Shelby GT500...5.4L V8 S/C...500...12.7....114.2....Motor Trend
# 58...1969...Chevrolet......Camaro.........ZL1 427 V8....430...12.76...107......Muscular Review
# 99...1970...Chevrolet......Chevelle SS....LS6 454 V8....450...13.12...107.01...Car Craft

Don't forget track conditions, weather, drivers, altitude, and wheels used will affect these times, but this list is what is.

You can check out one list at http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm where these stats were derived.
I was talking the 67' GT500s

the yenko camaro was avaliable to the public and ran 11.0s, and was factory.

I knew someone with an LS6 454 chevelle that ran mid to high 11s
 

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Mr.BULLITT said:
I was talking the 67' GT500s

the yenko camaro was avaliable to the public and ran 11.0s, and was factory.

I knew someone with an LS6 454 chevelle that ran mid to high 11s
You should find a source and submit the car and times to the site I referenced above.
 

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SmokinBullitt said:
You should find a source and submit the car and times to the site I referenced above.

And you can't really go with the Car & Driver times and the other car magazine stock times. car & driver said my 02' WRX was only supposed to run 15.2 1/4 times at best, i turned it to a 14.7, now if they had said 14.8 and i hit a 14.7 i say ok, but a 1/2 a sec difference is too much.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
SmokinBullitt said:
1) 2007 Bugatti 10.2/142.9mph
2) 1968 Plymouth Barracuda 10.5/130mph ***
3) 1968 Dodge S/S Hemi Dart 10.5/129mph
4) 2007 Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 10.6/139.8mph
5) 1969 Corvette Stingray 10.6/132mph
Were they on stock tires, or drag radials? I couldn't find anything on the quarter mile times on those cars except the newer ones...link? I'm not saying I don't believe you, because I'm pretty sure Muscle Car Review did those, (source,) but I just wanna read up on it. How many Barracudas, S/S Hemi Darts, and Corvette Stingrays were there that hit those times?

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1093509773037566263pYFsTz - Says there's only 2 Stingrays in existence? Were those cars racing homologates?
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/FAPC/PlymouthSSBarracuda.htm - Only thing I found on what I believe is the same Barracuda you're talking about, although it has no racing specs.
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm - I finally found some stuff on those vehicles...but are there any articles I can read on those specific vehicles, namely the 3 classics you named?

Once again, how many were actually produced for the general public?

[EDIT]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1541575 - Does that count as stock :eek:? 10.85 @ 129.50 MPH 1/4 mile, bone stock C6 Z06 on drag radials.
 

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DiZzyBonne said:
Were they on stock tires, or drag radials? I couldn't find anything on the quarter mile times on those cars except the newer ones...link? I'm not saying I don't believe you, because I'm pretty sure Muscle Car Review did those, (source,) but I just wanna read up on it. How many Barracudas, S/S Hemi Darts, and Corvette Stingrays were there that hit those times?

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1093509773037566263pYFsTz - Says there's only 2 Stingrays in existence? Were those cars racing homologates?
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/FAPC/PlymouthSSBarracuda.htm - Only thing I found on what I believe is the same Barracuda you're talking about, although it has no racing specs.
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm - I finally found some stuff on those vehicles...but are there any articles I can read on those specific vehicles, namely the 3 classics you named?

Once again, how many were actually produced for the general public?

[EDIT]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1541575 - Does that count as stock :eek:? 10.85 @ 129.50 MPH 1/4 mile, bone stock C6 Z06 on drag radials.
50 was the build number each for the Cuda and the Dart in '68. That's whey if you can find one, let me know!

The footnote says that the Cuda and Dart might have been outfitted with drag radials. Don't know if the wind was at their backside or on the nose of the car.

Don't know how many of the 100 attained those times. I assume the 'source' got hold of one, took it to a track, and did multiple runs to come up with those times. You would have to check with the source to confirm this. As an aside, rumor placed the HP of the Dart and Cuda in the 600HP range.

I gave the link to the this particular list (one of many) in my response above.

You can google and look for "1968 hemi barracuda" or "1968 Hemi Dart". You should find many articles and pics.

Here is the original letter to the dealers:



February 20, 1968
To: All Plymouth Dealers
Subject: 1968 Hemi Barracuda Super Stock

The Chrysler-Plymouth Division offers for the 1968 models a 426 Hemi-Powered Barracuda Fastback for use in supervised acceleration trials. These cars will weigh approximately 3,000 pounds and have been designed to meet the 1968 specifications of the major sanctioning drag strip organizations.

The Hemi-Powered Barracudas will be available through production in limited quantities in March. To order this vehicle, use the Barracuda Order Form and specify Body Code BO29 and Transmission Code, either 4 Speed Manual, Code 393, or Automatic, Code 395. No other specifications are necessary.

Description of Components

426 cu. in. 8-cylinder engine with dual 4-barrel carburetors-12.5 to 1 compression ratio.

Cross Ram Intake manifold.

1 11/16" x 1 11/16" Holley carburetors.

Competition Hooker headers, exhaust pipes, and mufflers.

High capacity oil pump.

Roller timing chain (reduced timing chain stretch for more consistent engine performance).

Mechanical valve gear.

Dual breaker distributor.

Transistor ignition.

Metal core type ignition wires.

Unsilenced air cleaners.

Deep groove fan drive pulleys.

Heavy duty radiator.

Aluminum seven-blade fan equipped with Viscous drive.

Special offset 15" rear wheels.

Chrysler-built 8 3/4" large stem pinion gear set, and heavy-duty axle shafts with automatic transmission (4.86 axle ratio).

Dana-built 9 3/4" heavy-duty axle with manual transmission (4.88 axle ratio).

Sure-Grip differential.

135 Amp. Hr. battery (located in rear compartment).

Heavy-duty high control rear suspension.

Front disc brakes 41/2" Bolt Circle.

Fiberglass front fenders.

Fiberglass hood with scoop.

Light weight steel doors.

Light weight front bumper.

Light weight side window glass.

High capacity fuel lines.

Business coupe interior (2 bucket seats - no rear seat).

For Manual Transmission Only

Special heavy-duty 10 1/2" clutch and flywheel.

Safety steel clutch housing.

Competition "Slick Shift" 4-speed transmission.

Hurst remote mounted floor-shift unit with reverse lockout.

For Automatic Transmission Only

High stall speed torque converter (large drive lugs and 7/16" diameter attaching screws).

Heavy-duty manual shift TorqueFlite transmission.

Hurst floor-mounted shift unit.

Please Note:

The following items are deleted on this body type:

Heater, Body Sealer and Sound Deadeners, Silence Pads, Outside Mirrors, Right Side Seat Belt and Body Color Paint.

NO OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT OF ANY KIND CAN BE ORDERED

The policy of Chrysler Corporation is one of continual improvement in design and manufacture, wherever possible, to insure a still finer car. Hence, specifications, equipment and prices are subject to change without notice.

These vehicles are intended to use in supervised acceleration trials and other competitive events, therefore, they will be sold without warrant. Special stickers will be provided for plant installation (attached to left "A" post) which will read as follows: "This vehicle was not manufactured for use on public streets, roads or highways and does not conform to Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

All customer orders must be accompanied by a signed disclaimer (sample attached) indicating that the purchaser understands that this vehicle is sold without warranty and does not conform to Federal Vehicle Safety Standards.

Any prospective customer who desires to purchase one of these maximum performance vehicles should be made aware of the following characteristics which make them unsuitable for general use.

A high idle speed is required to insure adequate lubrication, minimize roughness, and to keep the engine from stalling.

The modified intake manifold causes a rich surging condition, misfiring and unstable engine operation in cold weather, which makes ordinary street driving extremely difficult and it is not recommended for this use.

Higher than normal oil consumption will be encountered because of increased lubrication to the valve train and cylinder walls.

The carburetors are calibrated for maximum power and a high numerical axle ration is used for acceleration. As a result, the gas mileage is considerably less than for a conventional car.

Engine noise would be objectionable due to increased piston clearance and mechanical valve tappet clearance.

The ignition system is designed for optimum engine output and must be kept in top condition. This makes it necessary to inspect, adjust and replace the spark plugs and ignition points more frequently than would be necessary on a standard engine.

On car equipped with automatic transmission, band adjustment must be made frequently.

Due to performance characteristics, maintenance and operating expense will be high since premium fuel is required and frequent oil changes are a MUST.

Does not conform to Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

Warranty and Policy Coverage

Any customer purchasing this model vehicle should be advised that due to the expected use, the vehicle is sold "as is" and the 24 month or 24,000 mile vehicle warranty coverage, the 5 year or 50,000 mile Power Train Warranty coverage, or any other warranty coverage (including, but not limited to the implied warranties of fitness for purpose intended or merchantability) will not apply to the vehicle. The manufacturer assumes no responsibility for the manner in which such vehicles operate.

Any repairs or adjustments which you believe warranty factory participation should be brought to the attention of your Regional Service Office where such requests will be handled on individual merits.

Attached is a form letter (to be prepared on your letterhead) which should be thoroughly understood and signed by each prospective purchaser and attached to your order for each Hemi Barracuda Super Stock. The purpose of the letter is to explain the normal operation characteristics of these vehicles and clarify that the warranty coverage's do not apply. Be sure a letter in this form, signed by your customer, is included with your order so there will be no delay.

Pics:
 

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