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Discussion Starter #1
OK ... For you folks that are a little disappointed here lately ... here's something cut and pasted from another site:


Boss/Mach "Rumored Facts" from a good source
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Now, don't kill the messenger here BUT -

My friend who works for Ford and is in the SVT area at Ford (he provided a good amount of pre-production accuracy to the GT-500) called me just a few moments ago with some exciting news. (He has been really closed-lip about the recent projects until now for some reason...)

He tells me that there are at least two Boss Mules that he has seen (one Redfire and one Alloy), heavily disguised of course, being tested on the streets as we speak. There are also one-two of them out west somewhere for hot-weather testing.

They all are reportedly 5.4 N/A cars, 6 Speeds, Iron block, 4v aluminum heads that have had some work done to them to flow even better, gears, and are supposed to be ~400-410 hp. He also said that both of the cars that he saw look like a V6 Mustang - no visible body work, black rockers, etc but they are hiding the grilles/bumpers and rear wing area, according to him.

He also reported that there are also two-three other study/development 197s that are tagged to be another S/E ("possibly a Mach"). No info on the drivetrain other than that at least one has the old Terminator-style blown 4.6 in it with ~365hp. He did say it was NOT a Terminator motor transplant but a blown 4.6 with different internals, etc from the Termie mills.

Lastly, he said we will see one of these cars no later than the NAIAS with it possibly being a late '08 or early (as in mid-summer) '09 production model. No word on potential pricing.

Wonder how much ADM these will bring?


If you see a car like any of these, try and get a pic! I can not verify this but my friend has been fairly accurate in the past. He did say that they can not even take cell phones back into the 'secret' area to ensure that NO pictures are taken.

Man, I HOPE he is accurate!
**************************************************************************

This could give some of us something to think about ... (???) :confused:

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
 

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Discussion Starter #2
TXBLUOVAL said:
OK ... For you folks that are a little disappointed here lately ... here's something cut and pasted from another site:


Boss/Mach "Rumored Facts" from a good source

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Now, don't kill the messenger here BUT -

My friend who works for Ford and is in the SVT area at Ford (he provided a good amount of pre-production accuracy to the GT-500) called me just a few moments ago with some exciting news. (He has been really closed-lip about the recent projects until now for some reason...)

He tells me that there are at least two Boss Mules that he has seen (one Redfire and one Alloy), heavily disguised of course, being tested on the streets as we speak. There are also one-two of them out west somewhere for hot-weather testing.

They all are reportedly 5.4 N/A cars, 6 Speeds, Iron block, 4v aluminum heads that have had some work done to them to flow even better, gears, and are supposed to be ~400-410 hp. He also said that both of the cars that he saw look like a V6 Mustang - no visible body work, black rockers, etc but they are hiding the grilles/bumpers and rear wing area, according to him.

He also reported that there are also two-three other study/development 197s that are tagged to be another S/E ("possibly a Mach"). No info on the drivetrain other than that at least one has the old Terminator-style blown 4.6 in it with ~365hp. He did say it was NOT a Terminator motor transplant but a blown 4.6 with different internals, etc from the Termie mills.

Lastly, he said we will see one of these cars no later than the NAIAS with it possibly being a late '08 or early (as in mid-summer) '09 production model. No word on potential pricing.

Wonder how much ADM these will bring?


If you see a car like any of these, try and get a pic! I can not verify this but my friend has been fairly accurate in the past. He did say that they can not even take cell phones back into the 'secret' area to ensure that NO pictures are taken.

Man, I HOPE he is accurate!
**************************************************************************

This could give some of us something to think about ... (???) :confused:

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
AND HERE IS WHAT I'M AFRAID OF ... (also cut and pasted from another site):

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
I just got off the phone with the guy that is CNY Zone Rep.

The Challenger will hit the dealer lots in April, 08. They will all be SRT8, 6.1 Hemi cars. Automatic Transmissions. They will be numbered 1-5500. No. 1,2 &3 are donated to charity.

No. 2 sold on ebay for $175,000. 1 & 3 have yet to be sold.

The 5500 run will end in 60 days. After that, the second run of 2009 models will be the run for the average customer with a choice of 3.6 V6, 5.7 or 6.1 Hemi, and manual or automatic transmission.

The SRT8 version is in the low $40,000 range (except for the crazy markup based on supply and demand) and the others will start in the low 20's.

Regardless of how the market accepts this, it will be nice to see the Big three on the streets again...in RWD...Muscle cars!
************************************************************************************

Interesting, isn't it ... a 5.7 engine car in the 20K - 30K range ... ???
 

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IF we get both of those Mustangs the Challengers better watch out! Unless they are able to do some serious weight reduction they will easily be 4000 lbs. Since they are using the Magnum platform even with the added HP they will be within a couple of 10ths on the track. Current numbers for the SRT 8 Charger are 1 10th faster than the GT. So unless they loose about 500 lbs. Ford has braging rights!!
 

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Ford always has Bragging rights IMHO. The challenger is going to be a TANK, and starting at low 20s means the V6 then if you add the 5.7l your talking low to mid 30s and they are all base prices not premium packages. you can have all the tq and hp in the world but if you weigh in at nothing less than 4200lbs it isnt going to do you much good.
 

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Why does there seem to be so little concern about weight, even at Chrysler, the originators of light weight, high horsepower cars (Duster, Demon, Cuda)?

Are we (NA-SN95) the last of the 3300 pound car?
 

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PhotoRick said:
Why does there seem to be so little concern about weight, even at Chrysler, the originators of light weight, high horsepower cars (Duster, Demon, Cuda)?

Are we (NA-SN95) the last of the 3300 pound car?
Yeah i know Rick. I had a friend in High school with a 73' Nova Hatchback with a high Power 350ci. the thing only weighed like 3500lbs and it was a completely steel body.
 

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There was a lot less safety gear and electronics modules in the cars in those days. All of that stuff adds up to more weight.
 

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Bullitt3817 said:
There was a lot less safety gear and electronics modules in the cars in those days. All of that stuff adds up to more weight.
But even still, look at the new mustang with all those parts and still is under 4000lbs.
 

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Bring on the BOSS and the MACH.

If Ford can keep the weight to less than 3500 lbs. for these cars, Ford will be kicking everyone's butt in sales and performance. The Vette is 3100 lbs with a small block 427 so it can be done.

Performance cars should be offered without all the unnecessary heavy stuff like air and plush interiors.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Mr.BULLITT said:
Ford always has Bragging rights IMHO. The challenger is going to be a TANK, and starting at low 20s means the V6 then if you add the 5.7l your talking low to mid 30s and they are all base prices not premium packages. you can have all the tq and hp in the world but if you weigh in at nothing less than 4200lbs it isnt going to do you much good.
No problem ... I'd gladly pay mid-30K for a Mustang with a 5.4 or 5.8 or 6.0 enigne, regardless of "premium packages" or not. It's one thing looking fancy but if it don't run then it won't do you much good as a muscle car.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Mr.BULLITT said:
But even still, look at the new mustang with all those parts and still is under 4000lbs.
I have a concern about weight and I think most muscle car owners and the manufacturers do too. Nowadays though what can you do; emissions laws are so tight you got to put all the extra sensors and other electronics on there just to pass certification. All that as a whole in one automobile adds up. You got anywhere now from 2 to 4 airbags which adds more weight than they used to. Add that to the GPS screens, etc., and you're getting heavier.

Folks want leather instead of vinyl or cloth and that adds up. Adding all these extra little pounds here and there equates to a heavy automobile ... probably more than we tend to think about.

Also you got to remember that hemi-style engines (regardless of make) are often bigger and heavier than the pushrod engines. Is anyone offering pushrod engines in production cars these days? I don't think either of the big 3 are ... ???
<O:p
Whatever the reason ... if these DO get built I hope Ford is able to produce an answer that will give the competition a run for their money in price, options, and horsepower.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Mus408 said:
Why not use the aluminum block for the 5.4,just for good measure?
I was hoping somebody would suggest that ... :smile:
 

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PhotoRick said:
Bring on the BOSS and the MACH.

The Vette is 3100 lbs with a small block 427 so it can be done.

.
At what price though? A 3100# Vette has sophisticated carbon fibre or type panels that are very expensive. up here a Z06 was over 100k whereas a GT500 is 52k and a Bullitt 38k.
 

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I've said this before, but I think we may be near the peak of the second Musclecar era. They are getting bigger, more powerful and faster, and their going to get more thirsty. $4 a gallon fuel may start to thin the herd. Right now the last thing I am worried about is ADM on any future muscle.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
01GTB said:
I've said this before, but I think we may be near the peak of the second Musclecar era. They are getting bigger, more powerful and faster, and their going to get more thirsty. $4 a gallon fuel may start to thin the herd. Right now the last thing I am worried about is ADM on any future muscle.
Regarding ADM(s) ... The markups on the Shelby GT and GT500 are absolutely ridiculous. Dealers are starting to realize this. I think I saw a Shelby GT on E-bay (out of Michigan ... it was white with silver stripes) last night that was opening in the low 30K range and had no bids. I predict the prices may be lower than expected on the 2008 BULLITT towards the end of 2008 (around September).

As for the fuel ... I sure do wish they would go ahead and push that E85. I think it will sell cheaper by the gallon (and be more stable) and we can go back to a little higher compression!
 
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