[LesnTea]

Well we got our annual bonus check this week and with an income tax return coming I have decided that this is going to be my next mod. Getting our heads to flow better is going to maximize every other mod and thats why I am starting here with my first major mod. I called Powerheads today and talked with a guy named Ralph who really seemed to know his stuff. Here's a breif run down of the cost, work, and results.

Ship your heads at your expence...and for $1175 they will cnc machine the chambers and fit the head with larger valves and SVO springs (about 90lbs compared to our stock 70lbs). He said the work will allow the heads to flow 230cfm compared to 195cfm sock, and account for 35 to 40 rwhp with my stock exhaust.

So do these numbers seem reasonable to you guys? And how about the price? Also what else should I be doing at the same time to make sure this mod goes right?

I wish we had forged internals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, give up the good advice and thanks.

_________________
LesnTea
Jerseyville, Illinois USA
Black Bullitt #3185

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LesnTea on 2002-02-07 22:15 ]</font>

 

[1248bullitt]

The price seems a little steep. Leave THEGAME over on the corral a pm he ports heads don't know about the valves tho. He does it for $400.

 

[Bullitt#4660]

Yeah, that does seem high, especially since you still have to take the heads off yourself and then put it all back together.

 

[Rob00GT]

Does seem like a lot of money.

I do not think you'll see that much horsepower gain with stock exhaust. Your money would be better spent on a complete exhaust system with long tube headers.

If you do go with the heads, will you also switch to a set of aftermarket cams? Which ones?

I would also recommend sending a PM to The Game over at the corral. He has a great reputation and lots of experience with modular engines.

 

[mcm#2250]

EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!

 

[01GTB]

If they could get you 35-40 horsepower for $1175, I would say it isn't a bad deal. But the 35-40hp seems extremely optimistic. If you had everything else opened up and that was your bottleneck it would be possible. But to leave the exhaust stock, I don't see it happening.

As mentioned above SD Wheeler from Corral does a P&P for about 1/3 of that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 01GTB on 2002-02-08 03:52 ]</font>

 

[retromuscle]

LesNTea,

Did he say where the HP peak would occur in the RPM band? What about torque? Is there any loss of low-end torque (or top-end torque, for that matter)? How big are the valves he's going to put in? And at what lift will the heads flow 230 cfm? If they won't flow 230 cfm until .700" lift, it won't do you any good with the stock cams.

$1200 for a good head porting isn't that expensive. Go onto LS1.com and do a search for Joe Prince (he's the ONLY head porter I would ever use). He charges anywhere from $1200-$1800 for a set of heads (with you doing the R&R and shipping), but most of his head packages will net 50+ rwhp with stock cams and 100+ with a cam change. Well worth the money.

I studied a lot with him and his flow bench and learned that flow figures are NOT the way to port heads. Heads should be ported to velocity index mainly; flow figures are a by-product. I would question this guy on all the points I brought up, including asking him what the velocity index is at each .100" lift increment.

And the guy on the corral that does them for ~$400... I'll bet that he simply hogs out the heads and makes great flow figures, but won't pull squat worth on the dyno (until 6500 rpm) and will fall on its face at the track.

Hope this helps you with your shopping. I'm not suggesting that you use my guy (although I'm sure you'd be VERY happy with the results; e-mail/post a reply if you want his contact info), but at least if you know the right questions to ask, you'll be happier with the end results instead of wondering where your money went. :smile:

_________________
John
DHG #4851
Steeda Tri-Ax, Hurst chrome stick with black ball

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: retromuscle on 2002-02-08 08:15 ]</font>

 

[01GTB]

He has a lot of happy customers :roll:

 

[retromuscle]

John Lingenfelter and Nick Agostino have a lot of "happy" customers too. That doesn't mean that their methods are the best for performance.

I'm not looking to flame anybody (especially a head porter that I have no experience with). I'm just trying to educate people before they spend a lot of their hard-earned cash only to find out later that they didn't get exactly what they need/want.

 

[LesnTea]

Thanks guys, this is exactly the kind of feedback I need. I will definitly call Powerheads back and go over the volacity index #s and try to pin down what would happen with the torque/horsepower and when. When Ralph quoted the 230cfm he did say that was @ 500. I wasn't sure what he ment, 500rpm (that didn't seem right) or some unit of measurement that I don't understand yet.

I have given some thought to re-camming as well but again I really haven't got a clue. So I am trying to do the homework and appreciate any input as well as good contacts. I do not think I need more lift than the stock .500, maybe a bump in the timing though??? I do plan to supercharge eventually but being realistic about the cost and my believe in using forged internals as part of any supercharging that's probably 2 years out because of cost. Long tubes with an off road H will follow the heads anyway.

So I do have some more homework to do now and some contacts to make. Thanks again and please, any input on cams, grind-lift-timing, or springs, or valves, or rocker arms will be appreciated a great deal. Cost is secondary to quaility in my opinion. You can end up with crap wether it's cheap or expencive if ya don't do the homework so keep it coming.

 

[Mus408]

Are there any before and after dyno tests of the head work? Find out what gains in performance others have seen after head work.

 

[LesnTea]

Well I spoke again with Ralph at Powerheads and was again impressed with the conversation. The new valves are not in fact bigger just better. They have a flat bottom instead of the dished design our stck valves have and this helps increase flow in and out of the chamber. The work is definetly not a 'hog' job. They are also going to go through intake, debur it, smooth it out, and portmatch it to the heads for another $300.

As far as recamming goes I don't think I'll be doing this after all. Maybe later when there are some real choices. I was shocked to learn that our cams are actually hollow tubes and the lobes are pressed on! That might be common knowledge to some but it blew me away...anything to save a buck I guess but just imagine what would happen if a lobe spun!

Anyway this is deffinetly going to happen and I am excited and nervous at the same time. Do you all think the MAF and stock programming will be able to handle the extra air flow and keep me rich enough?? I think a dyno tune is going to be the last part of this mod.

 

[Barnaby]

I am very interested in your results. If you see decent results for $1500 I may have to follow in your footsteps.

 

[BULLITTBRO1]

I always said i was not going to do anything to the mine that cant be put back. So if it was me I would buy new ported heads. but thats me and a lot of money that i am working on getting rigth now.

 

[mystang99]

Les, i've been pretty busy the last two weeks. 1st time i've seen your post!
any new word on this Mod?
i'm excited to see & hear your mod!!

marty

 

[LesnTea]

Well marty, I'm still waitng for the tax return. In the mean time I have got the heads and intake all crated up and ready to go. I also installed 30 mm wheel spacers and Maximum Motorsprts strut tower brace. That was quite a job but was made easier by way of the top half of the engine being off. Also it is pretty much sacreligous because it totally covers my sticker and the lower bolt on that strut took a half cressent out of the bottom of the sticker. Keep in mind that I have never been one to complain about the fading ink and that's because I really don't care about the sticker or the resale value of this car. YES I DRILLED 14 HOLES IN MY CAR!!! Anyway I am most proud of the brace because it took alot to get everything perfect but I got it done.

I'm also going to install Long Tubes while I have such easy access. Probably go with BBK but I am looking around for an off road x pipe. I think DrGas makes one for the BBK/MAC LTs but not sure about '01 model.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LesnTea on 2002-02-24 17:59 ]</font>

 

[BULLITTBRO1]

Looks good! you have got to do what you want to do. so whats next after the heads are done.

 

[LesnTea]

What I would like to do next is work on the rear suspension and am leaning toward Maximum Motorsports heavy duty tourqe arm system. Then maybe a gear change. I saw that some one was making several off size gears. They made a 3.90 and that is something I like...something different. Problem is I can't remenber the company. I'll keep looking though.

 

[01GTB]

Motive Gear

 

[mystang99]

some VERY cool work and mods Les
congrats on the strut tower brace and i'm looking froward to seeing(the rear of) and hearing your baby!!
Brian in Houston has been rallying for years and he swears by Maximum