Joined
·
1,836 Posts
Interesting Article on the 5W-20 Oil Topic
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Joined
·
4,122 Posts
No wonder the competition loves bashing Amsoil people. They will have fun with this page. Interesting you can't see the difference in gas mileage but that is why Ford requires the 5W-20 spec and they stand to make BILLIONS.
Glad to know ford will be ok now that the 5W-20 spec is in place.
Plus he failed to mention that for the 2001 year is it just not the Viscosity 5W-20 but it is really GF-3 spec that EVERYONE will be on come March 2002, I think that is when it switches over.
Glad to know ford will be ok now that the 5W-20 spec is in place.
Plus he failed to mention that for the 2001 year is it just not the Viscosity 5W-20 but it is really GF-3 spec that EVERYONE will be on come March 2002, I think that is when it switches over.
Joined
·
360 Posts
For those of us who don't have a clue, could you explain what this thread means? And why would Ford recommend oil that would harm my car? I have a 36,000 mi. warranty. Are they counting on the damage showing up after it expires?
Joined
·
1,836 Posts
After buying my Bullitt, I was curious as to why Ford went to 5W-20 for the newer (post-2000) cars when it had been 5W-30 for so long, so this seems to be a valid explanation to me. The miniscule increase in CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) numbers for Ford seems to be the big reason to change so the automakers can justify their gas-swilling SUVs for a while longer and not be penalized by the government (and sell millions of dollar's worth of their "special" oil). I doubt using the 5W-20 oil would necessarily damage an engine per se, but the lower operating viscosity (the last number in the oil weight) won't lubricate as well in normal operating conditions as a 5W-30 would. Use what you feel comfortable with, but I run Mobil 1 5W-30 in my drivers and will continue to do so after reading this.
TB#570
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: strokerswild on 2002-02-01 11:54 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: strokerswild on 2002-02-01 12:00 ]</font>
TB#570
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: strokerswild on 2002-02-01 11:54 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: strokerswild on 2002-02-01 12:00 ]</font>
Bullitthead "Dennis" took a ride with a Ford regional rep and asked the 5W-30 question, here is the portion of the thread:
2) "I asked him about switching to Mobil One 5W-30 and he said that would be fine in Tucson, but he said not to switch to 10 weight, as there's no guarantee that the top of the engine will get properly lubricated."
Apparently, 5W-30 is OK in warmer climates.
2) "I asked him about switching to Mobil One 5W-30 and he said that would be fine in Tucson, but he said not to switch to 10 weight, as there's no guarantee that the top of the engine will get properly lubricated."
Apparently, 5W-30 is OK in warmer climates.
Also, I am not all that comfortable with the "law is on your side" argument. If Ford denies replacement of an engine because you use 10W-30 oil, you might win in a lawsuit, but how long would that take?
Second, why does Honda need to raise their CAFE average? The Odyssey and Passport are the only cars they sell that ever get less than 20 miles per gallon.
BTW, Valvoline makes 5W-20 oil, it is in my car, and cost no more than their other oils.
Second, why does Honda need to raise their CAFE average? The Odyssey and Passport are the only cars they sell that ever get less than 20 miles per gallon.
BTW, Valvoline makes 5W-20 oil, it is in my car, and cost no more than their other oils.
Joined
·
1,836 Posts
And what would it cost you, in time and money?
Not sure why Honda would do this too, but they sell themselves as a "green" car company so that may be why.
Not sure why Honda would do this too, but they sell themselves as a "green" car company so that may be why.
Could it be that in order to get as much hp/liter out of their little 4s and 6s, Honda has made the internal tolerances so tight that only something like 5W-20 will work?
As for the CAFE arguement,it's probably a valid point, but you have to remember that F250s, 350s, and Excursions can be/are classed as commercial vehicles due to their GVW and are therefore exempt from CAFE.
I've been using Mobil 1 5W-30 since the 1st oil changed at 886 miles. 2nd was at 5003, and the oil came out looking like it had just been put in. My avg. MPG is 25.2.
_________________
DHG No. 738
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TXBullitt on 2002-02-05 11:05 ]</font>
As for the CAFE arguement,it's probably a valid point, but you have to remember that F250s, 350s, and Excursions can be/are classed as commercial vehicles due to their GVW and are therefore exempt from CAFE.
I've been using Mobil 1 5W-30 since the 1st oil changed at 886 miles. 2nd was at 5003, and the oil came out looking like it had just been put in. My avg. MPG is 25.2.
_________________
DHG No. 738
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TXBullitt on 2002-02-05 11:05 ]</font>
Joined
·
2,681 Posts
I used the 5w-20 in the first 2 oil changes, but the third I opted for the 5w30 which I always used before buying the Bullitt. I didn't notice a difference in gas milage. Stopped at the same places as I did on the previous trip and filled it up almost the same.
_________________
![]()
MODS
100mm densecharger
Steeda Underdrive Pulleys
FRPP 3.73 gears
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
MGW Bullitt oil cap
debating on Pro 5.0 or steeda tri-ax
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TwoStangWmn on 2002-02-03 22:21 ]</font>
_________________
MODS
100mm densecharger
Steeda Underdrive Pulleys
FRPP 3.73 gears
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
MGW Bullitt oil cap
debating on Pro 5.0 or steeda tri-ax
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TwoStangWmn on 2002-02-03 22:21 ]</font>
Joined
·
4,122 Posts
Did a little research as to the answer the guy gives about Ford needing one tenth of a MPG improvement so they can continue to sell their SUV's with poor gas milage.
The CAFE numbers have been frozen since 1995 and they are going to change again, unless legislation changes, in 2003. Also there are different CAFE requirements for Light Duty trucks and passenger cars.
So my unseeable .1 mpg improvement in the Mustang by using 5W-20 oil may only barely barely barely help Ford to sell SUV gas pigs...
_________________
Mid Life Crisis #388
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mid Life Crisis #388 on 2004-01-06 15:50 ]</font>
The CAFE numbers have been frozen since 1995 and they are going to change again, unless legislation changes, in 2003. Also there are different CAFE requirements for Light Duty trucks and passenger cars.
So my unseeable .1 mpg improvement in the Mustang by using 5W-20 oil may only barely barely barely help Ford to sell SUV gas pigs...
_________________
Mid Life Crisis #388
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mid Life Crisis #388 on 2004-01-06 15:50 ]</font>
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-02-01 11:03, strokerswild wrote:
For all curious about the 5W-20 oil spec....
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ford5w20.htm
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
I emailed Performance oil technolagy here is my email and there reply. I'm following there advice.
My email....
Hi, I just read your right up about Ford/Honda 5w20 oil. I would like to start using Amsoil synthetic oil in my 2001 Mustang Bullitt, it has a 4.6 SOHC engine with a Vortech with a aftercooler I drag race the car often and do very little street driving(I may drive the car on the street alot more in the near future) I have just over 2k miles on the car.Also what oil filter to you recommend and how often should I change the oil? I live in SW Florida,so the car is in a very hot climate. Thanks!!!
Ray Ackerman
Ft.Myers Fla. USA
GSCA#3535
BCA #36858
2001 Mustang BULLITT #1042 (DHG)
1965 Skylark Gran Sport Conv. 4 Speed
1965 Skylark Gran Sport Conv. Auto
There reply......
Hi Ray, The very best oil for your Bullit Mustang is the AMSOIL 0W-30 Series 2000 Severe Service. You do not need any higher viscosity oil, even in Florida. I am an Engineer at Ford and work with many people that drag race as well as involved with a few of the NASCAR people also. This is the same oil that 600+ HP NASCARS and other drag vehicles use as well as several Indy cars (The Unsers have used AMSOIL for their entire professional race career) . Some of the extremely high HP alcohol fueled vehicles will run a special AMSOIL straight 60 weight or the 20W-50 racing oil but for your vehicle you do not need this type of oil. 0W-30 provides optimum frictional reduction as well as protection and extremely efficient heat transfer; much better than higher viscosity oils. Many of the NASCARS will use the 0W-30 to qualify with and then change to the 20W-50 for the race but in drag racing your Bullitt and normal street driving this is a 35,000 mile/1-year oil. If your racing and using high octane racing fuel you will need to change it more often. Oil analysis will help indicate when this is. If it is a road legal and also raced vehicle you should be able to go the one year on it. I have several people that do that now with autocross and drag racing. AMSOIL Super Duty oil filter SDF-11 requires changing at 12,500 mile /6-month intervals. Take a look at one of the race trucks I sponsor : http://performanceoiltechnology.com/cinjoracing.htm now look at who these guys are associated with. Then you can figure out what other team uses AMSOIL. Theres a Corvette shop in Orlando that is very well known, Vinci Hgh Performance, that uses only AMSOIL 0W-30 in all their corvettes and picked up 3 hp gain with the 0W-30 alone. If you leave me your mailing address I'll put complete product and technical information and some race info also and a Dealer/Preferred Customer price list and application. Thanks
Dave Mann
Lubrication Specialist - Truck/Automotive Engineer
Performance Oil Technology, L.L.C.
1-888-879-1362
2125 Newport Ct.
Wolverine Lake, MI 48390
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com
On 2002-02-01 11:03, strokerswild wrote:
For all curious about the 5W-20 oil spec....
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ford5w20.htm
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
I emailed Performance oil technolagy here is my email and there reply. I'm following there advice.
My email....
Hi, I just read your right up about Ford/Honda 5w20 oil. I would like to start using Amsoil synthetic oil in my 2001 Mustang Bullitt, it has a 4.6 SOHC engine with a Vortech with a aftercooler I drag race the car often and do very little street driving(I may drive the car on the street alot more in the near future) I have just over 2k miles on the car.Also what oil filter to you recommend and how often should I change the oil? I live in SW Florida,so the car is in a very hot climate. Thanks!!!
Ray Ackerman
Ft.Myers Fla. USA
GSCA#3535
BCA #36858
2001 Mustang BULLITT #1042 (DHG)
1965 Skylark Gran Sport Conv. 4 Speed
1965 Skylark Gran Sport Conv. Auto
There reply......
Hi Ray, The very best oil for your Bullit Mustang is the AMSOIL 0W-30 Series 2000 Severe Service. You do not need any higher viscosity oil, even in Florida. I am an Engineer at Ford and work with many people that drag race as well as involved with a few of the NASCAR people also. This is the same oil that 600+ HP NASCARS and other drag vehicles use as well as several Indy cars (The Unsers have used AMSOIL for their entire professional race career) . Some of the extremely high HP alcohol fueled vehicles will run a special AMSOIL straight 60 weight or the 20W-50 racing oil but for your vehicle you do not need this type of oil. 0W-30 provides optimum frictional reduction as well as protection and extremely efficient heat transfer; much better than higher viscosity oils. Many of the NASCARS will use the 0W-30 to qualify with and then change to the 20W-50 for the race but in drag racing your Bullitt and normal street driving this is a 35,000 mile/1-year oil. If your racing and using high octane racing fuel you will need to change it more often. Oil analysis will help indicate when this is. If it is a road legal and also raced vehicle you should be able to go the one year on it. I have several people that do that now with autocross and drag racing. AMSOIL Super Duty oil filter SDF-11 requires changing at 12,500 mile /6-month intervals. Take a look at one of the race trucks I sponsor : http://performanceoiltechnology.com/cinjoracing.htm now look at who these guys are associated with. Then you can figure out what other team uses AMSOIL. Theres a Corvette shop in Orlando that is very well known, Vinci Hgh Performance, that uses only AMSOIL 0W-30 in all their corvettes and picked up 3 hp gain with the 0W-30 alone. If you leave me your mailing address I'll put complete product and technical information and some race info also and a Dealer/Preferred Customer price list and application. Thanks
Dave Mann
Lubrication Specialist - Truck/Automotive Engineer
Performance Oil Technology, L.L.C.
1-888-879-1362
2125 Newport Ct.
Wolverine Lake, MI 48390
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>I doubt using the 5W-20 oil would necessarily damage an engine per se, but the lower operating viscosity (the last number in the oil weight) won't lubricate as well in normal operating conditions as a 5W-30 would </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Oil conversations here seem to have a tendency to devolve into holy wars, so I've gotten to where I tread pretty lightly on this topic. However, greater viscosity does not translate to better protection. It all comes down to having the necessary film strength to maintain a wedge of lubrication and prevent metal to metal contact. Lighter oil is at a disadvantage only when it is a formulation subject to significant thickening and vaporization over time. In addition, it flows more freely and arguably performs heat removal functions with greater efficiency.
A link and quote which explains the same in ten times as many words:
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>"Film strength" refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal. The higher the film strength, the more protection is provided to such parts as piston rings, timing chain, cams, lifters, and rocker arms...wherever the lubricant is
not under oil-system pressure. Synthetics routinely exhibit a nominal film strength of well over 3,000 psi, while petroleum oils average somewhat less than 500 psi. The result is more lubricant protection between moving parts with synthetics.
Viscosity is a crucial consideration when improvements in fuel economy are desired. It stands to reason that the freer and engine turns, the less fuel it will require to accomplish a given amount of work. Studies have demonstrated conclusively that engine drag is directly related to
the viscosity of the motor oil. Generally speaking, the lower the viscosity, the better the fuel economy of the engine. In formulating lower-viscosity oils, it has become clear that synthetics are the base
stock of choice. This is because it is possible to produce a synthetic oil of a given low viscosity without incurring the excessive oil consumption (due to evaporation) and resultant thickening of the same low-viscosity petroleum oil. Indeed, the U.S. Department of Energy in its pamphlet entitled "An assessment Of The Effects Of Engine Lube Oils On Fuel Economy", states: "It is evident that low-viscosity oils will help minimize engine friction losses in the prevalent hydrodynamic
region and thereby achieve better fuel economy. In addition, such oils help to reduce friction during ambient (cold) start by increasing the oil flow rate to critical engine parts. However, low viscosity engine
oils, blended from conventional petroleum base stocks, may have problems with high oil consumption and engine wear. There is also the possibility of decreased catalytic-converter life and efficiency due to
the increased levels of phosphorus in the exhaust gas from the oil additives. *One solution is to mix some synthetic oil with the mineral (petroleum) oil, or use a synthetic base stock entirely*"(end of quote).
This low viscosity, low-volatility character of synthetics has become increasingly important because many automobile manufacturers are now recommending lighter-weight (chiefly 5W-30) oils for use in their
products, and because the trend toward smaller engines creates substantially more heat and stress on the oil used. In these smaller, high-output powerplants, enough heat is generated to cause a lighter petroleum lubricant to evaporate and significantly increase viscosity within weeks of its introduction into the crankcase. High temperature stability, as well as oxidation-resistance, is of absolutely paramount importance when it comes to turbocharged engines. Because it must both lubricate *and cool* the turbo unit, the oil MUST be specifically formulated to withstand the turbo's extremely high operating temperatures. Oil film temperatures often exceed 450F in the turbo unit during operation, and can surpass 650F(!!!) during a short period immediately following engine shutdown...both figures far exceeding the thermal limits of petroleum oil. Synthetics, with their capacity to
maintain proper (low) viscosity and lubricity under these high heat and stress conditions, and with their natural resistance to oxidation, have risen to the fore. It is also important to note that the
high-temperature-stability properties of synthetics are *designed primarily into the base-stock oil itself*, rather than being achieved primarily with additives. The advantage with approach is twofold: (1)
Additives, which may account for as much as 25% of the volume of a can of premium petroleum oil, by themselves have little or no lubricating properties per se. Thus the more the additive content in an oil, the
less lubrication is available to the engine; and (2) Most additives tend to volatilize (evaporate) and deteriorate with heat and age and use, so that the overall effectiveness of the lubricant itself is significantly diminished within only a few thousand miles of driving.
It is also important to note that, contrary to what many take for granted, higher viscosity in and of itself does not translate into better engine protection. Extensive testing has shown the opposite to be in fact true. As long as a lower-viscosity oil is formulated to resist
evaporation and provide high film strength, this lighter oil will actually deliver more complete protection to the engine parts, since its more rapid circulation delivers both better lubrication per se, and far
better cooling characteristics...a critical advantage, given that oil flow furnishes up to 30% of an engine cooling requirements. Prior to the introduction of synthetics, however, the problem of evaporation (and
the resultant thickening of the remaining oil) was addressed primarily by increasing viscosity. In short, don't be concerned with the relatively lower viscosity ratings of some synthetics. Syn lubes are a
whole new ball game. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Oil conversations here seem to have a tendency to devolve into holy wars, so I've gotten to where I tread pretty lightly on this topic. However, greater viscosity does not translate to better protection. It all comes down to having the necessary film strength to maintain a wedge of lubrication and prevent metal to metal contact. Lighter oil is at a disadvantage only when it is a formulation subject to significant thickening and vaporization over time. In addition, it flows more freely and arguably performs heat removal functions with greater efficiency.
A link and quote which explains the same in ten times as many words:
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>"Film strength" refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal. The higher the film strength, the more protection is provided to such parts as piston rings, timing chain, cams, lifters, and rocker arms...wherever the lubricant is
not under oil-system pressure. Synthetics routinely exhibit a nominal film strength of well over 3,000 psi, while petroleum oils average somewhat less than 500 psi. The result is more lubricant protection between moving parts with synthetics.
Viscosity is a crucial consideration when improvements in fuel economy are desired. It stands to reason that the freer and engine turns, the less fuel it will require to accomplish a given amount of work. Studies have demonstrated conclusively that engine drag is directly related to
the viscosity of the motor oil. Generally speaking, the lower the viscosity, the better the fuel economy of the engine. In formulating lower-viscosity oils, it has become clear that synthetics are the base
stock of choice. This is because it is possible to produce a synthetic oil of a given low viscosity without incurring the excessive oil consumption (due to evaporation) and resultant thickening of the same low-viscosity petroleum oil. Indeed, the U.S. Department of Energy in its pamphlet entitled "An assessment Of The Effects Of Engine Lube Oils On Fuel Economy", states: "It is evident that low-viscosity oils will help minimize engine friction losses in the prevalent hydrodynamic
region and thereby achieve better fuel economy. In addition, such oils help to reduce friction during ambient (cold) start by increasing the oil flow rate to critical engine parts. However, low viscosity engine
oils, blended from conventional petroleum base stocks, may have problems with high oil consumption and engine wear. There is also the possibility of decreased catalytic-converter life and efficiency due to
the increased levels of phosphorus in the exhaust gas from the oil additives. *One solution is to mix some synthetic oil with the mineral (petroleum) oil, or use a synthetic base stock entirely*"(end of quote).
This low viscosity, low-volatility character of synthetics has become increasingly important because many automobile manufacturers are now recommending lighter-weight (chiefly 5W-30) oils for use in their
products, and because the trend toward smaller engines creates substantially more heat and stress on the oil used. In these smaller, high-output powerplants, enough heat is generated to cause a lighter petroleum lubricant to evaporate and significantly increase viscosity within weeks of its introduction into the crankcase. High temperature stability, as well as oxidation-resistance, is of absolutely paramount importance when it comes to turbocharged engines. Because it must both lubricate *and cool* the turbo unit, the oil MUST be specifically formulated to withstand the turbo's extremely high operating temperatures. Oil film temperatures often exceed 450F in the turbo unit during operation, and can surpass 650F(!!!) during a short period immediately following engine shutdown...both figures far exceeding the thermal limits of petroleum oil. Synthetics, with their capacity to
maintain proper (low) viscosity and lubricity under these high heat and stress conditions, and with their natural resistance to oxidation, have risen to the fore. It is also important to note that the
high-temperature-stability properties of synthetics are *designed primarily into the base-stock oil itself*, rather than being achieved primarily with additives. The advantage with approach is twofold: (1)
Additives, which may account for as much as 25% of the volume of a can of premium petroleum oil, by themselves have little or no lubricating properties per se. Thus the more the additive content in an oil, the
less lubrication is available to the engine; and (2) Most additives tend to volatilize (evaporate) and deteriorate with heat and age and use, so that the overall effectiveness of the lubricant itself is significantly diminished within only a few thousand miles of driving.
It is also important to note that, contrary to what many take for granted, higher viscosity in and of itself does not translate into better engine protection. Extensive testing has shown the opposite to be in fact true. As long as a lower-viscosity oil is formulated to resist
evaporation and provide high film strength, this lighter oil will actually deliver more complete protection to the engine parts, since its more rapid circulation delivers both better lubrication per se, and far
better cooling characteristics...a critical advantage, given that oil flow furnishes up to 30% of an engine cooling requirements. Prior to the introduction of synthetics, however, the problem of evaporation (and
the resultant thickening of the remaining oil) was addressed primarily by increasing viscosity. In short, don't be concerned with the relatively lower viscosity ratings of some synthetics. Syn lubes are a
whole new ball game. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Joined
·
4,122 Posts
For a Ford employee he seemed to like to bad mouthing them. He kept telling me that he could not tell me anything because it was proprietary information. Since I mentioned to him that there are seperate CAFE requirements for cars and trucks and his big conspiracy theory for the 5W-20 oil does not hold water I have not heard from him.
In one of our other lengthy discourses on motor oil, someone pointed out that the 5W is the viscosity rating, and the 20 is the lowest temperature at which it is a 5W. So a 5W is 5W it just depends on what you average local low temperature is. The question then becomes what does a 5W-20 do for you when the avg. temp is 90? What about 100+?
Art Hyde runs 20W-50 in his Cobra - same 4.6L engine aalbeit 4V - and he lives in the Dearborn, MI area. Guess he voided his warranty!
Art Hyde runs 20W-50 in his Cobra - same 4.6L engine aalbeit 4V - and he lives in the Dearborn, MI area. Guess he voided his warranty!
Joined
·
41 Posts
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS....
""Film strength" refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal. The higher the film strength, the more protection is provided to such parts as piston rings, timing chain, cams, lifters, and rocker arms...wherever the lubricant is
not under oil-system pressure. Synthetics routinely exhibit a nominal film strength of well over 3,000 psi, while petroleum oils average somewhat less than 500 psi. The result is more lubricant protection between moving parts with synthetics."
********************************
who wrote this is feeding you some good trash!
so you think the film strength of a synth is stronger than that of a mineral oil right?
let's examine this closer....
now we agree that Film strength refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal.
viscosity on the other hand is
The measure of the internal friction or the resistance to flow a liquid.
Low viscosity fluids flow easily (water);
High viscosity fluids pour slowly (molasses).
so lets take two sets of two surfaces...a synth oil is inbetween one and a mineral oil with the same viscosity on another..so lets say for arguments sake.. both are a 10w30 oil.
now, start to squeeze down on both of them. now since nither one is in closed system and oil can move out between them.. oh, now did i mention move? yes, oil moves right? at what speed is the oil going to move? oh, that depends on the viscosity of the oil.. so if both measure out the same speed since both are a 10w30 in this case, then both are going to take the least path of resistance and move out between the two surfaces. would you agree with that?.. so if the oil can be squeezed out, then where does the film strenght come into play???? when oil is squeezed out between the two sufaces since oil will move, you now have sheared the film strength of the oil and now have contact between the surfaces.
this better film strength is not reliant on the base oil.. it's reliant on the antiwear properties of an oil or should i say the antiwear additives. the base oil synth or mineral is a carrier oil that holds and distributes the additives and it will move when under pressure and depending on the viscosity of the oil depends on how fast it will move out of the way when sheared. anti wear additives are things like zddp or mos2 soluble and such.
of course, thicker would move slower thus more protection between the two sufaces longer, but with enough pressure long enough any oil will shear the film strength..
so the moral of this story is, for lower wear, consider a little higher visc oil but also one with higher levels of antiwear additives. don't let the BS of "synth is better for protection" fool you, thats just one part of the equation and is just a base oil.
yes synth is better... for lower sub zero cold weather pumpability.. and for extreme high levels of heat and for higher levels of extended oil drains. but for a head to head of the new sl api spec gf-3 oils vs the full synths, there is very little difference.
that's my 2cents worth.
bob in jville
Lubricant Specialist
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bobistheoilguy on 2002-02-05 14:28 ]</font>
""Film strength" refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal. The higher the film strength, the more protection is provided to such parts as piston rings, timing chain, cams, lifters, and rocker arms...wherever the lubricant is
not under oil-system pressure. Synthetics routinely exhibit a nominal film strength of well over 3,000 psi, while petroleum oils average somewhat less than 500 psi. The result is more lubricant protection between moving parts with synthetics."
********************************
who wrote this is feeding you some good trash!
so you think the film strength of a synth is stronger than that of a mineral oil right?
let's examine this closer....
now we agree that Film strength refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal.
viscosity on the other hand is
The measure of the internal friction or the resistance to flow a liquid.
Low viscosity fluids flow easily (water);
High viscosity fluids pour slowly (molasses).
so lets take two sets of two surfaces...a synth oil is inbetween one and a mineral oil with the same viscosity on another..so lets say for arguments sake.. both are a 10w30 oil.
now, start to squeeze down on both of them. now since nither one is in closed system and oil can move out between them.. oh, now did i mention move? yes, oil moves right? at what speed is the oil going to move? oh, that depends on the viscosity of the oil.. so if both measure out the same speed since both are a 10w30 in this case, then both are going to take the least path of resistance and move out between the two surfaces. would you agree with that?.. so if the oil can be squeezed out, then where does the film strenght come into play???? when oil is squeezed out between the two sufaces since oil will move, you now have sheared the film strength of the oil and now have contact between the surfaces.
this better film strength is not reliant on the base oil.. it's reliant on the antiwear properties of an oil or should i say the antiwear additives. the base oil synth or mineral is a carrier oil that holds and distributes the additives and it will move when under pressure and depending on the viscosity of the oil depends on how fast it will move out of the way when sheared. anti wear additives are things like zddp or mos2 soluble and such.
of course, thicker would move slower thus more protection between the two sufaces longer, but with enough pressure long enough any oil will shear the film strength..
so the moral of this story is, for lower wear, consider a little higher visc oil but also one with higher levels of antiwear additives. don't let the BS of "synth is better for protection" fool you, thats just one part of the equation and is just a base oil.
yes synth is better... for lower sub zero cold weather pumpability.. and for extreme high levels of heat and for higher levels of extended oil drains. but for a head to head of the new sl api spec gf-3 oils vs the full synths, there is very little difference.
that's my 2cents worth.
bob in jville
Lubricant Specialist
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bobistheoilguy on 2002-02-05 14:28 ]</font>
Joined
·
3,989 Posts
I've got a question for the oil experts. I use Mobil 1 in pretty much everything and have for about 12 years, except the Bullitt (yet). Why is it so black when it comes out? I had a 87 Mustang go 257k miles using it most of the time, the engine was really clean when it was torn down, but everytime I change the oil, it looks like tar. Why is that?
Joined
·
5,360 Posts
man, like you said...."a holy war"!!!!
my advice just go ahead and ask your dealer!!
my dealer said he would use 5W-30 mineral OR synthetic...whatever i wanted to use!!!
he sais that Ford is OK with either oil i chose
so,...i use Valvoline 5W-30 full synthetic and my dealer is fine with that!!!
my advice just go ahead and ask your dealer!!
my dealer said he would use 5W-30 mineral OR synthetic...whatever i wanted to use!!!
he sais that Ford is OK with either oil i chose
so,...i use Valvoline 5W-30 full synthetic and my dealer is fine with that!!!
01,
Motor oil is various dark shades when you change it because it picks up combustion products from the cylinder walls as the pistons move. It also picks up dirt/dust which does manage to find its way into the engine. That's part of its job. If it were to smell burnt or scorched, you then would have a serious problem to repair because somewhere it is in contact with a serious heat source that is actually burning the oil.
Motor oil is various dark shades when you change it because it picks up combustion products from the cylinder walls as the pistons move. It also picks up dirt/dust which does manage to find its way into the engine. That's part of its job. If it were to smell burnt or scorched, you then would have a serious problem to repair because somewhere it is in contact with a serious heat source that is actually burning the oil.
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
