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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just talked to the shop who is putting JBA Cat4wards on 5508 tonight. They dyno'd it bone stock, then with the 80mm MAF, and will dyno again tomorrow after header install.

Bone Stock pulled 183hp! (keep in mind I'm at 5000 feet)

Second pull with 80mm MAF came in at 183 also!

WTF!!!!!!!

$400 for no hp gain?

Should get the 40 hps back when I get to Texas. But right now, I'm thinking about getting my money back on the MAF!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

_________________

Wade Koch
3.73s
Steeda Tri-Ax
Pro-M 80mm MAF
JBA Cat4ward Chrome Headers


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: h1resq on 2002-01-11 19:36 ]</font>
 

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Hey Wade,

Did they use a wide-band O2 and can they give you any idea what the A/F ratio looked like vs. RPM? Did they use a Dynojet or some other type of dyno? I take it that these are uncorrected numbers since they were so low (greatly affected by altitude). I gained 6rwhp/6rwtq from the C&L 80mm MAF kit.

Doh!!.... I just read your sig and realized that you have the Pro-M unit so....<snip text>....sorry!

BTW, check out my sig for dyno numbers and mods.

Mark

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BLACK #5434 - Steeda Triax & Pullies & T/A, JBA shorties, Magnaflow X w/cats & cat-back, Alum. Driveshaft, 80mm C&L MAF w/K&N, MAFterburnerTM - 254.0rwhp/ 298.1rwtq SAE (CF=0.96)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mjchip on 2002-01-11 19:47 ]</font>
 

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Best explanation for your results is the stock MAF, for a bone stock engine, is flowing all the engine needs. The upgraded MAF won't really buy you anything until you either force more air through the engine(blower or turbo) or make it more efficient (exhaust, cams, etc).

Brian
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-01-12 11:29, FordBullitt wrote:
Best explanation for your results is the stock MAF, for a bone stock engine, is flowing all the engine needs. The upgraded MAF won't really buy you anything until you either force more air through the engine(blower or turbo) or make it more efficient (exhaust, cams, etc).

Brian

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey Brian,

Based on my back-of-the-envelope calculations, the stock Bullitt MAF can flow about 955 kg/hr (468scfm at 1.5"Hg delta). This can support approximately 293bhp or 249rwhp(using 15% approximate driveline loss). Now the real gains come not from making the intake tract more free-flowing (on a 2V Mustang with minimal mods) but the leaning of the mixture that occurs with these aftermarket meters. Both Pro-M and C&L are designed to lean the mixture out by some amount. The problem is that they can only do so much before the OBDII system throws a code. This is because the changes that they make are always in effect (in CL-adaptive and OL modes). For example, the C&L with black cal. tube leans the mixture out by approximately 4% across the entire load range. I gained 6rwhp/6rwtq from this product. However, many others have gained little to nothing and some have had pretty significant idle and drivability issues. Aftermarket Mass-air meters are a crap shoot for a stock engine. What you really want to do is be able to adjust the A/F mixture at differing loads vs. RPM. This is what the product that I'm currently developing does. The MAFterburnerTM prototype on my car netted 11.7rwhp/16.0rwtq by leaning the mixture out to the point where it was stable between 13.5:1 until about 4000rpm and 13.2:1 thereafter (as measured on a wide-band while also monitoring EGT values).

On a side note, it is really important to clear the EEC's volatile memory when making changes to the car before you dyno (if you don't give the car sufficient time to relearn). What I mean is that if you make some base dyno runs with one intake config. and then change the intake (e.g. different MAF cal) then you need to drive the car around for a while to give the EEC time to adapt OR you can just disconnect the battery for a while which clears the KAM.

Mark

_________________
BLACK #5434 - Steeda Triax & Pullies & T/A, JBA shorties, Magnaflow X w/cats & cat-back, Alum. Driveshaft, 80mm C&L MAF w/K&N, MAFterburnerTM - 254.0rwhp/ 298.1rwtq SAE (CF=0.96)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mjchip on 2002-01-12 12:12 ]</font>
 

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Uhhhhhhh yea. I agree with the first statement. WTF! Following on the same note though, your numbers will change with elevation and also you need to be sure if your dyno numbers were corrected and if it was a wide band o2 dyno.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ran it today with the headers installed and got 186.8 rwhp actual and 221.1 corrected for altitude.

I do think the EEC needs to learn. The first drive this morning (prior to the dyno) the car didn't seem to be any different with headers installed. But, after the dyno and a couple of cycles on the EEC, on the way home the car felt much stronger! I'm putting the MAC off-road H on Monday. We're going to do another pull prior to the install. I'm anxious to see the differnce after the EEC has had time to learn the headers.
 

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Wade,

Get A/F done at the same time so you have an idea of what's happening. 221rwhp sounds low to me especially with that Pro-M and headers. You should verify that you have the right mass-air meter and that it's calibrated properly (if you already haven't). I've heard from a very reputable source that there is wide variation between Pro-Flow's MAFs of the same type. A/F with a wideband during the dyno session should reveal a lot. Best of luck.

Mark
 

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Had my first dyno done today also.

SAE Horsepower:

Max Power=243.0

Max Torque= 287.5

So I think that makes it about 286HP at the flywheel. Was hoping for a few more ponys with my mods.

John

_________________
True Blue Bullitt #2731, Bassani X Pipe w/Cats, Magnaflows (welded in), 3.73 Gears, Aluminum Driveshaft, Pro 5.0 Shifter, MGW Shifter Arm, Densecharger, Superchips Chip, Steeda Pulleys, GT Fog Lights, Tinted Windows, Stongard, MGW Pieces, 30MM Spacers

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TrueBlueBullitt on 2002-01-12 18:12 ]</font>
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-01-12 18:00, h1resq wrote:
mjchip,

What do you think about a Pro-M optimizer?

$150. How much is your MAFterburner?

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I'm told, if you want to go with the Pro-flow MAF tuners, get the Calibrator and NOT the optimizer. I've been told that the optimizers are just junk but I have no experience with them personally. Also, the calibrator is around $467 I think.

The MAFterburnerTM is going into beta test within the next few weeks so it is not currently on the market. However, preliminary results show predictable and repeatable modification of the car's A/F ratio over the entire RPM curve. I will be posting updates about the MAFterburnerTM here on Bullittclub.com and the other Mustang bulletin boards.

Whatever product you choose to use, you first have to get the A/F data to see what's going on inside your engine (I also log EGT). Then, with someone who is knowledgable in modular tuning and the right tools you can make smart improvements.

If you wanna discuss this at all, feel free to private email me: [email protected]

Take care,

Mark Chiappetta
Zone-5 Performance Products
www.mafterburner.com
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-01-12 18:11, TrueBlueBullitt wrote:
Had my first dyno done today also.

SAE Horsepower:
Max Power=243.0
Max Torque= 287.5

So I think that makes it about 286HP at the flywheel. Was hoping for a few more ponys with my mods.

John

_________________
True Blue Bullitt #2731, Bassani X Pipe w/Cats, Magnaflows (welded in), 3.73 Gears, Aluminum Driveshaft, Pro 5.0 Shifter, MGW Shifter Arm, Densecharger, Superchips Chip, Steeda Pulleys, GT Fog Lights, Tinted Windows, Stongard, MGW Pieces, 30MM Spacers

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TrueBlueBullitt on 2002-01-12 18:12 ]</font>
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Those are good numbers, you should be happy! Check out my sig for mods and dyno numbers.

Mark
 

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Wade,
I understand your disappointment, but your mods will pay off in the long run....cough...Vortech...cough.

It does sound much meaner now with those headers. :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tim,

Call me crazy but, the car feels much stronger tonight than this morning. Maybe the EEC has adjusted?

Wade
 

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LOL barnaby!!!!...coughcameltoecough
 

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I just got a voice mail from Wade. They dyno'd his car before they put on the H-pipe.

Last week with headers/MAM=221
This week with headers/MAM=231
Then the H-pipe went on=244

Looks like the computer needed some time to adjust for the changes. I would think it might even be higher once the computer make adjustments for the H-pipe. Since Wade is moving this week I thought I would share that with everyone.
 
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