[McFly]

I am also noticing what sounds like a semi regular pop-pop-pop from the exhaust at idle when it’s warm. Not sure if it’s related?

here are some PIDs from idle. I’ll try to get a video of the trims at idle and 2500rpm Again. Not sure why it idled at 800rpm. But the fuel trims at idle look to be within range 5%? A bit off for bank 1 I guess.

@chromebullitts I’ll likely have the dealer diagnose all of this and have all plugs and cops replaced as maintenance on a 20yr old car despite the 42k mileage

Nice work getting data posted. Fuel trims at idle are good. That is interpreted as probably not a vacuum leak. Apparently the idle is problematic when warm. Not sure if that is when PMC going into closed loop (looking at 02 sensors) or if another component is bad.

1. How many miles have you driven the car. It would seem that if you have between 50 and 500 miles on the car lately; a code would appear.
2. If you are going to put diagnosis on Dealer, you should not tell them to replace plugs and coil packs. They will do that if you tell them to; if it does not work that is on you. Then you are looking at replacing all the fuel injectors and on and on. The data should give clues before changing parts at random (desperate act). Since it is not your daily driver (?), you are going to be able to manage this. Pay the dealer or someone else (yea) the $100 or so; to diagnose, if you think they are competent (are actually going to put on scanner and evaluate data). If their diagnosis is explained and makes sense; then work with them. If not find a local (Midas) or whoever that has a newer $3300 or better scanner and know how use it. You will have to interview them; before you give them the job. They should be able to get you in and scan Bullitt while you wait. If not find someone else that wants the work. You are in no hurry now. It is February. This car is not your daily driver Im thinking? I like how the 3 stooges said it "Im thinking but nothing is happening" lol.
3. Not sure what you meen by popping noise. From the end (tail pipe) or the exhaust manifold?
Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Just giving you some ideas that might work for your particular situation. It took me a year to get my Bullitt figured out, with great patience. It is going to be a great feeling when the mystery is solved. Let us all know. I will be celebrating with you. Thanks, for your consideration.

 

[holson]

@McFly thanks! I was able to get some more hot idle and 2500rpm rev (not loaded) fuel trims - fuel trims are always within +/- 5% even at 2500 rpm not sure if thats good or bad

The slight pops are from the tail pipe not the manifold area - or at least aft of the manifold

ive driven the car a few hundred miles since I got it and still no codes

I’ll schedule it in to the dealer and just report the symptoms and see if I can speak with the foreman and explain what I’ve seen. Good advice - I’ll skip throwing parts at it (plugs, COPs) until proven otherwise. technically those plugs are supposed to last 100k miles

yes It’s not my daily driver so no rush at all

 

[McFly]

My last message got clipped of notes 4 and 5. Or my keyboard error. I had wanted to mention concerning o2 sensors upstream: 1 of Bank 1 and 2 were at .02 volt.

4. At 8:34 the fuel trims show closed loop (good); which mean / the o2 voltage's needs to be in correct range when loop closes to idle correctly ..
The o2 voltage data for o2 sensors: 1 - of Bank 1 and 2 should be in
the .1 volt - .9 volt range at idle and 2500 rpm at 8:35 (evidently in closed loop):
Your scanner was reading o2 sensors upstream: 1 of Bank 1 and 2 were at .02 volt in closed loop - (bad).
Might have been a glitch in scanner. I would recheck (re scan) if you ever have your scanner plugged in again.
It seems unlikely that both o2's would be bad. If either are, or both are: that could create the bad idle when loop closed on your PCM.
[open loop idles good / closed loop idles bad] a possible theory.
Verify voltages to confirm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The downstream o2 sensors would not effect your idle, they would throw a code if bad at most and fail emission tests.. The downstream o2 sensors apaparently do not effect fuel trims or electronic controls. The voltage is in range (good) on downstream (o2 - 2 sensors both banks) anyway.

5. In summary you might mention to tech that you got a bad reading on o2's sensors closest to engine exhaust manifolds.
That would be the sensors labeled 1 - on both - bank 1 and 2.
That should get them putting their best technician on the job. I would request an appointment with their best tech at dealer. OOOOooooorR You could try jasperengines.com to locate a master preffered technician shop in your area.

Find An Installer | www.jasperengines.com

 

[holson]

Updating here, took the car to another dealer.
They diagnosed the rough idle as misfires (not enough to trigger a CEL) in cylinders 6 and 8 and recommended replacing the worn original plugs and COPs as well

they also found a leaking seal of some sort on the gearbox shifter plate and will be replacing that and topping up the fluid. Disappointing that the first dealer I took it to for a trans fluid change didn’t notice and that the dealer either didnt fill it all the way up or it leaked so fast (dec was the fluid flush)

 

[McFly]

Updating here, took the car to another dealer.
They diagnosed the rough idle as misfires (not enough to trigger a CEL) in cylinders 6 and 8 and recommended replacing the worn original plugs and COPs as well

they also found a leaking seal of some sort on the gearbox shifter plate and will be replacing that and topping up the fluid. Disappointing that the first dealer I took it to for a trans fluid change didn’t notice and that the dealer either didnt fill it all the way up or it leaked so fast (dec was the fluid flush)

 

[39Tudor]

Was the facility where you had the transmission gasket fixed and fluid topped off familiar with the TR-3650 TSB regarding transmission fluid type and quantity?

If they filled the transmission to owners manual quantity and fluid type, you are going to experience some shifting issues until you get the quantity reduced to TSB recommended levels.

 

[holson]

I assumed so! It’s a major Ford dealership.

the car shifts fine still, never had any issues since I bought it. the trans fluid change didn’t change anything either.
The transmission isn’t as slick as BMW or Honda type r (amazing) shifter but it’s not bad, smoother than the 944 turbo I had and about the same as the 06 Aston v8 vantage.. both probably had transmission issues to be fair

 

[39Tudor]

Here is a copy of the TSB regarding correct fluid level for the TR3650 so that you know what is required for your vehicle if further service is required.
Hopefully they serviced your automobile with the correct fluid and the correct quantity.
However, I believe in “Trust But Verify”!!!

http://www.paladinmicro.com/documents/TSB-TrannyFluid-04-15-6.pdf

 

[holson]

Thanks @39Tudor - I’ll ask a dealership to check if TSB has been done next time looks like it’s beyond just a change in fluid type and capacity but also a set of new internals - might be something to do when it’s time to replace the clutch.

on another note, the rough idle is still there the weird popping sound from the exhaust is gone though, that was probably a result of the minor misfires. so that’s good and I get new plugs and COPs but dang it. I feel like this was not thoroughly diagnosed, we’ll see what the dealer has to say. might want to wait until it’s warm so they can easily reproduce it.

 

[VIC-TIM]

the 3650's in these cars shifted horrible. not only is the amount of fluid an issue, but the brand of fluid. When I had my 01 I did all kinds of experiments with different brands, and, as I recall, the best was Amsoil coupled with the Lucas tranny fix. smoothed it out as much as was possible. some that you would think would be good, weren't. for example, Royal Purple was really bad, Valvoline was bad, Mobil 1 was Ok. all synthetics. if you search, you can probably find some of my old posts on this.

 

[holson]

Thanks! When I did the init fluid change I requested mobil 1 synth ATF not realizing there was a TSB specifying Motorcraft Mercon iii atf instead. who knows what the 2nd dealer topped it up with...

I did do some reading on the fluid and it looks like it is sensitive to fluids and level. knock on wood it’ll just be fine throughout my ownership. But I might try something else if I have to rebuild the clutch

 

[bullit4404]

I used the Motorcraft with a few ounces of Lucas, fill per manual.

 

[VIC-TIM]

in case you haven't discovered this yet, easiest way to refill the tranny....through the top. remove the shifter and pour straight in. way easier to control the amount than trying to use a gun.

 

[39Tudor]

I made the mistake of following the fluid type and quantity specified in the owners manual. That is Mobil 1 ATF at 3.8 liter. My car shifted like crap, especially the 1-2 shift.

Last spring I drained it all out and replaced it with Valvoline Dextron 3 at only 3 liters of fluid. Made a huge difference in the 1-2 shift.

As for the internals of the TSB, no need to do that if your car is shifting fine. I only mention the TSB concerning fluid type and quantity.

And if you decide to fill thru the shifter opening, I would recommend a Cobra Bob‘s silicone gasket when you reinstall the shifter.

I know you were not planning on getting an education on your transmission when you started this thread but I think you a learning the little things about owning a Bullitt!

 

[VIC-TIM]

did some research and here are some threads from the ancient history on here, including some of my findings . hope it helps. I started with links from the first page of where it is

The Ultimate Fix For Our 3650 Trannys!!!!

transmission oil recommendations

The Bullitt will be getting her first tranny fluid change and wondered what the opinions out there were regarding either Amzoil or Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. I will be using one of these as they are readliy available locally. Any real difference one way or another? And what would the recommendation...

www.imboc.com

Is this the final 3650 fix????

Ok, guys, here is the skinny on what I have done and what my experiences are. I just installed a Hurst Billet plus shifter I bought used from a Mach guy. I have had the stock, a Triax and a Hurst made for Saleen in mine prior. As a side note, the Triax was way too noisey for me, the made for...

www.imboc.com

 

[McFly]

Thanks @39Tudor - I’ll ask a dealership to check if TSB has been done next time looks like it’s beyond just a change in fluid type and capacity but also a set of new internals - might be something to do when it’s time to replace the clutch.

on another note, the rough idle is still there the weird popping sound from the exhaust is gone though, that was probably a result of the minor misfires. so that’s good and I get new plugs and COPs but dang it. I feel like this was not thoroughly diagnosed, we’ll see what the dealer has to say. might want to wait until it’s warm so they can easily reproduce it.

While your fuel trims did look good; Im still curious why your bank2 O2 sensor 1 only had .02 volts. It should have between .1 - .9 volts. Dont forget to revisit that issue next time you have your scanner plugged in.