[sinner]

On Turkey day, I raced my cousin. He owns a black 2000 SS Camaro and #4667 is black too. Soo beautiful. Both are stock. Anyway, we said we'd drag race and did - twice.

We wind our way to a clear piece of 2 lane asphalt. Sit at the light, revving. TC is off (his was on). GREEN!! Drop the hammer, spinning tires slightly half way through first. NECK & NECK. Slam to second, chirped the tires. NECK & NECK. Halfway through third, he starts to pull. When I shift from 3rd to 4th (@ 5900 rpm, appx 105mph) my nose is beside his rear. Sorry to say, 4th gear on was the a$$ end of an SS. Hey, he's got 30-40 more HP so I was proud.

Second race: From the light to the flashing yellow down the street is a 1/4mile. Line up. Hold RPMs @ 3k. GREEN. Minimal wheel spin and I got a better jump. Slam to second, chirp tires, I'm ahead. Flashing yellow within reach. Slam to third, we're side by side, chewing up asphalt like it's goin' outta style. At the 1/4 mile mark TIE!!

Eventhough the SS Camaros have more horse power, the Bullitts can still hang in the quarter mile. Most magazine reviews show the Bullitt & SS differ in trap speeds by a couple tenths of a second. It just comes down to the driver. On the top end, the HP of the SS comes out.

On the way home we hit some twisties. I knew the road and he didn't so I didn't push it. The next stop is the racetrack (Summit Point). I feel the suspension on the Bullitt will outshine that of an SS. To be continued...

fyi: Bullitts weigh 3900. SS Camaros weigh 4250

 

[Dans Bullitt]

Great story was the ss an auto or stick??This backs up what ive been saying all along..we have a 40hp disadvantage but the BULLITTS pull stronge in 1st and 2nd.When i raced an auto ss ipulled him by a whole car when i it 2nd i pulled another half link hit 3rd and i could see him coming up.Still beat him by a car..Spend 266.99 an get some high flow cats then race again see the diff..good luck.great story..

 

[Bullitt4075]

Awsome story. Let us know what happens at the track. This is, in my view, where the Bullitt is at its best. It eats up curves like my teenage son eats pizza..... one big gulp that never has to slow down before starting the next slice. :lol:

 

[Brad1790]

Great story. Just one thing. Bullitts do not weigh 3900 lbs. That figure came from a MM&FF article in which they were smoking crack when they wrote it. The Bullitt weighs somewhere around 3273 lbs without a driver. Even MM&FF realized their mistake and corrected it. For comparison, the Cobra weighs about 3400 lbs. I got these figures from an article in 5.0 Mustangs 11/01.

Brad

 

[antabi]

Sinner i have a question for you. Actually i have a question for all you bullitt racers out there. Do we get better acceleration with traction on or off. I know my friend was telling me Mustang 5.0 said best way to accelerate in the BUllitt is to keep RPM around 2000-2300 and the tires will spin a little. But is that with traction off or on. I usually race with traction on and when i do the 2000-2300 its great but when i take the traction off it slides until it hits 6000. Where as with traction on it quickly gets back in place at i think like 3500-3900. Can someone please tell me whether i should race with trac on or off. Cause i have been doing it with track on always and i have beaten a 98 cobra 4 times and many other fast cars. I could never take the new M3s though those things are killers.... so on or off?

 

[99svt32v]

YOUR boy can't drive. no one should race any car with the tc on that is just dumb. tell him to turn off the asr and then try again. a well driven ls1 that is broken in will spank the ever living daylights out of a stock bullit. i believe your story but don't say that bullits can hang. oh and ls1s make about 70 more rwhp than bullits fyi. oh and don't magazine race. go to a track and see what happens

 

[sinner]

On the weight of Bullitts, I'll check the GVW number on the door sill. I got the 3900lbs from 2 diff articles. I read the 4250 off my cousins GVW.

TC off or on? Car & Driver did a great article a year or so ago about these systems. The gist of the article was that it's a tie. If you drive the car well, you don't need traction control. If you want the car to do as much as it can to help you, leave it on.

Dragging with TC helps some because it reduces (but doesn't eliminate) wheel spin. You can still spin the tires with TC on, but not as much as with it off. Launching in the mid 2k range is good, 'cause it doesn't cause as much wheel spin. My second launch with less spin was around 2500.

01 SS Camaros can come with as much as 345 HP, but that's with (dealer installed) optional exhaust and intake. The 99 and older have 310-315 stock HP.

Given the weight advantage of the Bullitt against the HP advantage of the LS1 SS, I believe stock performance (up to about 110mph) is dead on even.

 

[jacob67]

great story, i also agree it is the driver that makes the diff

interested in the high flow cats, does this affect the warranty? and where to get

thanks

 

[Los]

2000-2300? Damn!!! I stall at 1800 and I spin like hell!!!

Must be the bullitt in me. :smile:

 

[99svt32v]

you guys are taking the factory rated flywheel hp of the ls1s. They are way underated to not encroach on the corvette. These are corvette engines. The only diff is the exhaust. They make on average 300-310rwhp(00-01). Compared to 230 to 240rwhp from bullit. 70rwhp difference, same weight. You can see where im going with this. As much as i hate to admit it they are fast as hell.

 

[dstanky]

Every article that I have read up to date shows the Camaro SS with around 325 at the flywheel. Even a recent article which compared the SVT Mustang Cobra to the Camaro SS - Dynoed the Camaro SS with 325 at the flywheel and the SVT Mustang Cobra with aroung 317 at the flywheel. While the Bullitt has been Dynoed by many on this site with around 270 (conservative). So, I see the difference being around 50-55hp (which is still a lot). However, in the article mentioned above the Cobra was able to hang with the SS from 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile but then it was all down hill from their for the Cobra (the larger V8 of the Camaro kicked in). So, taking all of this into consideration - the Bullitt should still theoretically lose. However, I beleive a lot does ride on the driver and that the hp numbers described above are just averages and either could stray 10 to 15 hp above or below these numbers. So, its really not that unlikely that the Camaro SS could have around 310 hp (as mentioned) and the Bullitt could be push the high end of about 280 hp which would then make it a really close race decided by the driver.

 

[okanor]

I weighed my Bullitt and it came up 3500 lbs with me, and half tank of gas. I weigh 200 and had about 50 -70 lbs of gas, so I would say right in the 3250 range for weight. I race a family member on the way home from the dyno twice. (a 98 Z28)I stomped him out of the hole,( no T.C.) by the time he was done with second we were even and when he hit third I was like wow, we both stopped after third was done (100mph) and my front bumper was about 2 ft off his back. He dynoed at 301 hp at the wheels and 315 ft lb's of torque. His torque curve looks like ours except it starts at 300 ftlb's @ 2K rpms. He has exhaust and a K&N filter. Its fast but, My Bullitt looks so much cooler!

 

[99svt32v]

go to ls1.com or camaroz28.com. These guys have sick dyno numbers. For ^ third gear is the strongest gear for the ls1s he should have pulled you if you went all the way thru that gear. But i guess anything is possible. but 301 at the wheels is about 345 at the engine, corvette rating

 

[dstanky]

99svt32v,

First - I just want to state that this is just friendly debate - nothing more.

When I went to LS1.com and selected Dyno runs - the Dyno runs listed were for 1998-2000 F-Body LS1's. When reading the information on the right it explained that the car is a 1998 LS1 Z28 with a six speed manual - that had the following modifications: SLP Cat Back system , SLP Y pipe, and a K&N air filter. Granted the K&N really wont increase much HP - so it can be ingnored. However, the exhaust modification can't be ingnored - this could in effect increase HP and torque a lot depending on how restrictive the original setup was.

A for what I read about the SVT Cobra vs Camaro SS. This article was in MotorTrend Decmeber 2001. This article had a section called "Seperating the HP from BS" (page 80). They Dynoed the Camaro SS with (and I quote) 268.4RWHP @ 5500RPM and 280.8RWTQ @ 4200RPM. The Cobra had 240.5RWHP @5900RPM and 257.6RWTQ @ 4200RPM. The corrected Flywheel numbers were Camaro SS 322.1HP (using a corrected factor of 1.2 - GM has less drivetrain losses) and the Cobra 312.6HP (using a corrected factor of 1.3). I'm inclined to side with MotorTrend on this one because both cars were brand new (theirfore similar comparison - no one was broke in better that the other). So using your RWHP number of 301 vs MotorTrends RWHP of 268 is 33 hp difference which is a lot and maybe the exhaust mod listed above cause this difference?

As far as the 0 to 60's and the 1/4 times. I will be using MotorTrend again. I know that their numbers are not really the greatest but MotorTrend has run all of the cars so their margin of error should be the same for all of the cars (ie. if you think one time should be a 1/2 of a second faster - mnore than likely all of the cars should be the same 1/2 second faster) - or atleast closer than by any other comparison. MotorTrend states that the Camaro SS does 0 to 60 in 5.19 and a 1/4 in [email protected] The Cobra 0 to 60 in 5.38 and the 1/4 in [email protected] The Bullitt 0 to 60 in 5.6 and the 1/4 in [email protected] As you can see all of these cars are extremely close. o to 60 times are only of as much as .41 and 1/4 times are only of as much as .61. These are really close times which could easily be made up by a number of things.

 

[99svt32v]

well you have to remember that motortrend uses a mustang dyno which reads lower than the most accepted dynojet 248c. Most ls1s dyno at around 300 to the wheels, the 01s even more. They are strong as hell. Oh and magazines are crap. Go to a track see what normal people are running that have gotten used to their car. Oh and even mmff has gotten 12s from a stock ss and z. I raced a 01 last night and pulled one car from launch and it stayed that way till about 100

 

[Dans Bullitt]

OK I thought this was a BULLITT sight not a LS1 sight.The LS1 is very fast,but it is a 5.9 liter 350 cubic inch motor.Now for those of you who missed it,I posted this once already.I want to know how many LS1 have out ran or think they can out run a COBRA R 5.4 liter 351 cubic inch.In my opinion this is an even match.We have a 4.6 281cid motor and can still run with the LS1 IN the 1/4.I think that says it in a nut shell!SO lets get back to talking about why we come here our BULLITTS!!!!!!

 

[Team BULLITT TX]

This weekend I am racing both of my friends that have Z28.One of them a 00 with exhaust msd and nitto tires.
My other friend joe with a 98 Z28 with msd cold air , gears , and a few goodies he will not tell me.
He said best to date was a 13:40.
They have got to be pushing more HP than me.I only have 4.56 gears and (dont tell)draglights and et streets.

What do you think should I bet on myself??

Or do you think I should install my O/R X-Pipe,densecharger,TB,mass air,& chip.

THIS IS DEFINITLY GOING TO BE FUN AT RIVER CITY RACEWAY IN MARION (SAN ANTONIO) TX HAHA.

 

[dstanky]

Dans Black#3231 - I agree totally - the LS1 is the high end and should be compared to the high end Cobra R mustang. I just truely feel that the LS1 F-bodies seem to be given a higher status than they really deserve. They are good cars in all but when a 4.6 GT\Bullitt can even hang with the FBodies LS1's 5.9 decently - that says a lot. Then when you take into consideration that the Cobra DOHC 4.6 can almost match the FBodies LS1's 5.9 HP for HP and Torque for Torque - this again states that the FBodies are overated and overpriced - an FBody LS1 Camaro SS is currently going for around $34,000 a Cobra $32,000 and our Bullitt's 28,000.

 

[99svt32v]

you gotta talk about the enemy sometimes. The 5.7 liter 346ci ls1 motor is fantastic. It is high end but yet an ls1 stripper(plain jane formula or z) can be had for the price of a gt. Thats an awful bang for the buck. And to be honest we cannot really hang with them stock. The majority of the people that take them to the track, corrected for altitude with average drivers return home with high 12 low 13 second time slips, stock or with a lid and catback. That is on street tires. Yes we have a 1.1 liter displacement deficit but whos fault is that. It is kind of a ricer argument that way. The 4.6(both dohc,sohc) produce less horsepower and produce slower e.ts from the factory. If you want to argue with me over that pm me. They also come with a 6 speed. I honestly think sometimes about trading the snake in for a 01-02 ram air ws6 trans am. And pricewise yes the ss and ws6 are expensive, but they aren't as rare as the cobra or bullit so the dealers are willing to negoigiate and if you look used their resale value drops like a rock. The ls1 engine is a revalation in the world of pushrod v8s. The car they wrapped it with is the problem. I love my cobra but the performance of a stock fbody is hard to pass up. for the price thing, yes the highend ls1s(ss, ws6, firehawk) are expensive but the transam, formula and z28 all have the ls1 and are sometimes faster than their more expensive cousins. A stock bullit cannot hang with an ls1 powered vehicle, all else being equal, the outcome with a cobra(maybe the 01 or a strong 99)might be different. More power same weight, better overall gearing doesn't make a strong case for the stang. Oh and for the guy with 4.56 gears, good god man, thats a lot for a reasonably stock bullitt, you must be running a lot of tire cause that is really too much gear. I still think you are going to lose, Unless your friends can't drive. STOCK OR LIGHTLY MODDED MUSTANG V8 IS SLOWER THAN ANY LS1 POWERED VEHICLE, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL. Now if ford would put that 5.4 in the regular cobra or other mustang and drop the ridiculous price tag then we would be in good shape but that aint gonna happen. And technically it should make more power right, we got 4 cams and better flowing heads right. to quote mmff(but uncle henry, its only got one cam". I love my cobra and most likely will not trade it but i can definitely understand the attraction of the f-body

_________________
99 cobra, 4.30s, offroad h, flows, chip, timing adjuster,
wms cai, bushings and airbags.
JMS compucar dry nitrous kit,
12.32 at 110 on drag radials with a 1.78 60. off the juice

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 99svt32v on 2001-12-04 17:58 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 99svt32v on 2001-12-04 18:00 ]</font>

 

[Dans Bullitt]

dstanky,Thank you,Iam just tired of hearing about how fast the LS1 SS or Z28.Ive raced an 2001 ss and beat him (not my fault he could not drive)but some people say there is no way.That is why we dont race on paper.All I know is I love my BULLITT and Iam not afraid too pull along side of any ss or z28 win or lose.Its all in fun.