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Discussion Starter #1
I have upgraded my mach 460 system in order to actually get some bass and be able to turn it up above half way with out the speakers freaking out. I hooked up a sub to the rear amp and put a passive crossover on the fronts (220 mf) I listen to Metallica, Dido, Rush, Dance and some rap pretty much stuff along those lines. Now there are to choices when it comes to upgrades, redo it all or modify what you can. So far I have seen no easy mods for replacing the tweeter \mid combos in front. So I crossed them over so they could actually reproduce frequencies they were capable of. (You could replace with a better midbass but you would need to match the efficiency of the stock ones.) I am using a Dual Voice coil sub wired in parallel (2 ohms) I would not recommend this but I would like to see what the factory amps can take. You should with no problem be able to remove the factory rear sub enclosure (2 of the 6 bolts are hidden under the amps which have to come off anyway) and run a single voice coil sub off the factory amp (4 ohms and make it efficient, I prefer 10 inch subs but in this case I believe a 12 inch sub better fits the bill) I will post more later and some pics if anyone is interested. Again this is no SPL goddess but it is a major improvement on the factory setup which can be easily returned to factory if needed.
I am going to look into tapping off the factory "rca" input to see what voltage and how the signal is sent to the amps. I would also highly recommend to you guys already running subs and line converters to put in a 220 mf capacitor on the front and rear "factory subs" it will be a great improvement.
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-30 13:48, cmezip wrote:
I have upgraded my mach 460 system in order to actually get some bass and be able to turn it up above half way with out the speakers freaking out. I hooked up a sub to the rear amp and put a passive crossover on the fronts (220 mf)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
What frequency were you targeting for your x-over point. I think the factory drivers are either 3 ohm or 6. So that puts a 220mf cap somewhere between 150 and 350. Sounds pretty safe. Did you lose an appreciable amount of midbass up front?
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
So far I have seen no easy mods for replacing the tweeter mid combos in front. So I crossed them over so they could actually reproduce frequencies they were capable of. (You could replace with a better midbass but you would need to match the efficiency of the stock ones.)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
The strange thing here is the tweeters(if you can call them that) have a seperate amp from the door speakers. Might be an interesting project to replace all the door speakers with good mids and tweets wired to the factory amps. Anyone want to try?
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
I am going to look into tapping off the factory "rca" input to see what voltage and how the signal is sent to the amps.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
The signal from the head unit is speaker level, albeit low power. When I put amps and speakers in my 99 I went right into speaker level inputs on the amps(which happened to be RCA, PPI go figure). Line level converters are probably your best bet.

The biggest problem that I encountered with a factory HU and aftermarket amps was that there is no delayed turn on for the amps. So occasionally you would get a turn-on/off thump. The sounds was fine, but you end up slipping the HU pretty quick. To compensate I had the gains on the amps turned up pretty high and just couldn't use all of the volume control on the deck(1/2 way was about it).
 

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cmezip..

Yes, please post more nifo and pics. Being sound system challanged, I would sure like more info. I would like to add a sub to get more low end.

Thanks!

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #4
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-30 14:09, Barnaby wrote:
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-30 13:48, cmezip wrote:
I have upgraded my mach 460 system in order to actually get some bass and be able to turn it up above half way with out the speakers freaking out. I hooked up a sub to the rear amp and put a passive crossover on the fronts (220 mf)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
What frequency were you targeting for your x-over point. I think the factory drivers are either 3 ohm or 6. So that puts a 220mf cap somewhere between 150 and 350. Sounds pretty safe. Did you lose an appreciable amount of midbass up front?

Actually they are 7 ohm each and they are wired in parallel (fronts one amp rear another) I wasn't going for any "point" I went with what sounds best, I have a large variety of caps and coils at the house and I work for a Stereo shop part time, I have been installing for 12 years. I lost no midbass because it is a 3.5 ohm load across the speaker so the crossover point is below 200 and the sub in the rear is crossed over a bit high. I would recommend trying a couple of different 100V caps in the 150-300 mfd range. I used high quality caps and they do make a difference from "bass blockers"
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
So far I have seen no easy mods for replacing the tweeter mid combos in front. So I crossed them over so they could actually reproduce frequencies they were capable of. (You could replace with a better midbass but you would need to match the efficiency of the stock ones.)
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
The strange thing here are the tweeters(if you can call them that) have a separate amp from the door speakers.
No they do not, this is different from the previous stereo systems ford has installed in mustangs. There is no amp under the radio any longer. The speakers are feed directly from the head unit and crossed over in the head unit. I have not 100% confirmed this (crossover in radio) but I am 99% sure that is how they did it

Might be an interesting project to replace all the door speakers with good mids and tweets wired to the factory amps. Anyone want to try?

Good luck with that
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
I am going to look into tapping off the factory "rca" input to see what voltage and how the signal is sent to the amps.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
The signal from the head unit is speaker level, albeit low power. When I put amps and speakers in my 99 I went right into speaker level inputs on the amps(which happened to be RCA, PPI go figure). Line level converters are probably your best bet.

Actually I read a peak of just over 6 volts on the audio signal going into the amp. Lets face it line level converters suck. My point of writing this is for people who do not need to be blasted out of their cars, they simply want their factory stereo to look factory but sound good. I didn't get a chance to let anyone listen to my car at the St. Louis G2G but it is pretty impressive for what it started out as. Most of the people at the G2G weren't worried about how the factory sounded only the exhaust. If you are interested in upgrading the door speakers like I said Originally, replace it all! But if you don't then this one option of doing an upgrade

The biggest problem that I encountered with a factory HU and aftermarket amps was that there is no delayed turn on for the amps. So occasionally you would get a turn-on/off thump. The sounds was fine, but you end up slipping the HU pretty quick. To compensate I had the gains on the amps turned up pretty high and just couldn't use all of the volume control on the deck(1/2 way was about it).

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have not tested for a power antena output on the radio but you could always use a relay off the ignition to turn the amps on
 

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Interesting, only 2 amps. I assumed it was the same as previous 460 systems. So are the door tweeters driven off the same amp as the 5x7s? Or is the 3rd amp now residing in the HU? I too was installer(many years ago) but never understood what the hell Ford was thinking with their stereo systems.

As for the turn on, I tried that with the relay. But with no delay it thumped. Oh well, that car's not mine anymore.

Glad it worked out for you, and some good info shared. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The mids in the door and in the rear deck are driven off the head unit. only the 6x8's in the doors and "sub" enclosure are driven by the amps. I have been running a 2 ohm load on the one amp for a week now and have had no problems... not yet anyway. I am going to rewire up the sub tonight when I recarpet the box for 8 ohms and see how it sounds. It is actually a little much bass right now ( funny the older I get the less stereo I need to make me happy) I really wish I could improve the mid/high portion but short of a total redo I don't see that happening. I also do not have the rear mids in the back deck, not even sure if I will put them back in. I installed professionally for 2 years back in 92-93 (shade tree installing prior to that)and then I got a job at Ford and it has only been recently that we have been moved to eight hours that I got a second job installing. I just checked at the amp for a remote but they seem to be current snensing for the turn on for the amp. Haven't checked the radio for it, but knowing Ford it is probably not there.
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-30 17:46, cmezip wrote:
The mids in the door and in the rear deck are driven off the head unit. only the 6x8's in the doors and "sub" enclosure are driven by the amps. I have been running a 2 ohm load on the one amp for a week now and have had no problems... not yet anyway. I am going to rewire up the sub tonight when I recarpet the box for 8 ohms and see how it sounds. It is actually a little much bass right now ( funny the older I get the less stereo I need to make me happy) I really wish I could improve the mid/high portion but short of a total redo I don't see that happening. I also do not have the rear mids in the back deck, not even sure if I will put them back in. I installed professionally for 2 years back in 92-93 (shade tree installing prior to that)and then I got a job at Ford and it has only been recently that we have been moved to eight hours that I got a second job installing. I just checked at the amp for a remote but they seem to be current snensing for the turn on for the amp. Haven't checked the radio for it, but knowing Ford it is probably not there.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Just so I understand, you're calling the speakers in the pods in the corner of the front window "mids"...correct?

I have the schematic for the old 460 system and it didn't have a turn-on lead. It would have been nice.

In this case, if the x-overs are in the HU, then replacing amps would result less than optimum results though. If I decide to upgrade this one I may just do a complete replacement; HU, amps, speakers. Too bad since I actually like the CD changer that comes with these things.
 

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Well I too felt the stock system need upgrading and took it as another project. I wanted to get away from ground pounding bass because my previous car was stollen just for the sound system. I have installed an infinity basslink. The sound is ok, nothing like i am used to but an improvement over stock. I have disconected it now because of the damm turn on thumb. I get it everytime i turn the key, and when the alarm is armed. bottom line, that sucks. I am in the process of selling the basslink because it was not enough for me. I am going with a sub amp and a 12 keeping the stock HU, i dont want to tempt myself into building a nother "system". I got this idea from my installer, let me know what you all think of this to get rid of the turn on thump. You simply wire in a switch on the remote to turn it off before you cut the car off, and on once the car is started??? To me it seems like it would work if it is a problem with two systems turning on at the SAME TIME. Now you can control it???
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I will try to pull the radio ou tomorrow and see if there is a remote lead out of the radio. I was also going to try hooking an amp up off the stock preouts in back. I will let you guys know something tomorrow or the next day. Happy Halloween everyone :smile:
 

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Yeah, please do post your findings. I too have a need for more bass than the stock system... I put together a nice package in my fiancee's Explorer and, oddly enough, it sounds great. New HU, 12 disc changer, EQ, 2 Sony 70w/ch amps driving the factory 5x8's in front and rear doors, and a 250w Kicker Impulse driving a 12" Earthquake sub (custom enclosure, built into the side of the cargo area). Her stereo sounds killer compared to the Mach 460, so I'd like to add a little of the low stuff to mine. :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
My wife's 2002 Explorer is next on the list. I am probably going to redo the whole stereo in there though. Any idea what airspace is avaliable for an enclosure in the rear panel (passenger side)?
 

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Discussion Starter #13


Here are the amps relocated and out of the way.




Here is the picture of the sub in the trunk, as you can see it does not take up much room and it only weighs about 30 lbs. (minus the 12 or 15 for removing the stock enclosure)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cmezip on 2001-10-31 15:27 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cmezip on 2001-10-31 15:28 ]</font>
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-31 15:09, cmezip wrote:
My wife's 2002 Explorer is next on the list. I am probably going to redo the whole stereo in there though. Any idea what airspace is avaliable for an enclosure in the rear panel (passenger side)?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I built an L shaped enclosure that is recessed into the side panel (yes, I had to cut the side panel) and comes out flush with the wheel well in the rear cargo area. I will take digital pics and post as soon as I can.

Let me know what you find with plugging the line level inputs into the HU outputs. This is the way I would like to go, but want to be sure it will work before investing the $$. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-01 09:45, retromuscle wrote:
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-31 15:09, cmezip wrote:
My wife's 2002 Explorer is next on the list. I am probably going to redo the whole stereo in there though. Any idea what airspace is avaliable for an enclosure in the rear panel (passenger side)?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I built an L shaped enclosure that is recessed into the side panel (yes, I had to cut the side panel) and comes out flush with the wheel well in the rear cargo area. I will take digital pics and post as soon as I can.

Let me know what you find with plugging the line level inputs into the HU outputs. This is the way I would like to go, but want to be sure it will work before investing the $$. Thanks!

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually My car sounds so good I am not going to bother with wiring up RCA's off the Factory line outs. So Far no need for any extra amps. I got my wifes done last night and she loves it.
 

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Hey cmezip,
If you could tell us all what color wires you put where. What wires on the Ford amps did you cut, and what wires were used to hook up your aftermarket amp to the existing wiring. As much detail as possible. I'm also in the process of doing a similar install, but was waiting for someone to let me know what wires are what.
Thanks for the info, great stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I am using the factory amps. I am running a single 12" DVC orion sub wired for 2 ohm, I DO NOT recomend this setup. I would disconnect the subs on the backdeck by unpluging the main plug into the rear black sub box (square four plug harness, 2 red and 2 black I believe) and I would splice into one of the black/white and black/green wires and run a single 4 ohm sub off the factory amp and passively crossover the front subs. I was going to try to hook up an aftermarket amp to the factory preouts (the three wire plug on the oposite side of the amp) and run a remote turn on wire either off the ignition or try to find one off the radio. But the factory amp runs my sub so good there is no need for me to do so. I believe it can be done and I may try to do so some day but not right now. there is a the wiring diagram in the mods section that was just posted if you wish to pursue it further. My GUESS on the wires in the 3 wire plug is the one by it self is the ground and the 2 next to each other are the left and right inputs, check first with a voltmeter and then try to hard wire up some RCA outputs.
 

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With the stock 460, if I turn the volume above where the #6 cd is, the car just rattles. How does anyone get away with adding to the 460 without it sounding like a pimp-mobile just rattling down the road?
 

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I added two 10" JL Audio subs and amp as well and have (had) the same problem. Actually the problem was there even stock but I didn't fix it till just awhile ago.
You have to do two things:
The first is to use dynomat sound deadener. I put it on the trunk lid, underneath the trunk carpetening, and under the plastic interior in the rear (by the c pillars).
The second, as I mentioned earlier, is to add a sub/amp combo for the bass. Pushing the stock system too hard will cause a lot of distortion which doesn't help the rattle problem any.
 

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lee50guru,
Did you try to lower your bass and treble. That seems to work for me. What type of music are you listening to?

Lou
 
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