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Discussion Starter #1
I jumped in my car this morning to head to work. At first it cranked right up, but then died after 2 or 3 seconds. Never done that before; always fired and ran before. Didn't have any problems on Saturday when Bullitt got a bath. Should not have been a big deal, BUT...

Upon cranking again, the idiot lights came on like normal, the starter spins, but not the engine. I tried pushing back a little to reposition the flywheel with the starter, same thing. I tried rolling down the driveway and mechanically starting, no-go.

Smelled possible short in wirng from inside passenger compartment.

Will be calling dealer in about 1/2 hour to make arrangements to get it to the shop.
 

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This really bites!

I'm wondering if a relay got tripped or something.

While I was fixing my wife's speedo in her Contour yesterday, I notice these new Fords have a fuse or relay for everything. There's one for the fuel pump, starter, ECM, spark control, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ford RA arranged for a flatbed wrecker for me. Note: If you don't request a flatbed like the owner's manual recommends they'll send a regular hook. While the driver was trying to get it out of my driveway and onto the street, he tired starting it. He said the starter was turning the motor, but it acted like it had no (zero) compression. The starter getting hot was the odor I smelled this morning. He'd seen this in other makes and models, so he tried the old fashioned carbuerated-engine fix - hold the pedal to the metal and crank it. It finally caught but was rough running.

I drove it to the dealer making sure to use ALL of the RPM band along the way.

The shop didn't have a slot open until next week, but they hooked it up to check for problem codes. None were generated by the incident. Since I hadn't washed the engine compartment Saturday while washing the car, wet connections were ruled out. Outside influences were negated since it's been parke d in the garage since Wednesday - except for washing. They couldn't find a problem with chafed wiring, but they haven't ruled this out yet. As long as it's running, they'd like me too drive it some more to see if it will generate an error code.

On the way home, I stopped and had the oil changed. Mobil 1 5W30 again at 5003 miles.

i'll keep everyone posted on further developments.

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DHG No. 738

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TXBullitt on 2001-11-26 14:32 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #6
According to the shop personnel, the most likely culprit is LOW pressure in the fuel rail. Why they can't say. They think the most likely reason is the injectors drizzling instead of misting. They likened it to Arizona Misters when you turn the water off. They mist until the pressure drops, then they just drizzle streams until the pressure is too low for them to flow. If this happened, the cylinders filled with enough fuel to really wash the oil film from the walls, pistons and most importantly the rings. In the 3 hours it sat there between my attempts to start and the wrecker's arrival, most of the gas had a chance to evaporate.

They did say that pedal to the metal was the correct, albeit not the manual's, answer. Basically, it builds up enough gas to create a sufficient hydraulic seal for compression to occur. That explains the great founts of carbon from the exhausts when it finally started. The black streaks on my driveway are nearly 6' long.

Sounds strange to me too in an FI system, but mechanically it makes sense.
 

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The next itme that happens dont start the engine.The computer will record the last few seconds and give them an idea of what went wrong.When you started and ran the bug out it was probably erased from the short term memory.Thats what I was told when I had a problem with another vehicle.They told me to leave it the way I found it.Broke. :roll:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bullitt0399 on 2001-11-26 21:35 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bullitt0399 on 2001-11-26 21:36 ]</font>
 

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must ahve been the local air. The local air where my car is did a number on my paint
:lol:
 

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-26 15:43, TXBullitt wrote:
According to the shop personnel, the most likely culprit is LOW pressure in the fuel rail. Why they can't say. They think the most likely reason is the injectors drizzling instead of misting. They likened it to Arizona Misters when you turn the water off. They mist until the pressure drops, then they just drizzle streams until the pressure is too low for them to flow. If this happened, the cylinders filled with enough fuel to really wash the oil film from the walls, pistons and most importantly the rings. In the 3 hours it sat there between my attempts to start and the wrecker's arrival, most of the gas had a chance to evaporate.

They did say that pedal to the metal was the correct, albeit not the manual's, answer. Basically, it builds up enough gas to create a sufficient hydraulic seal for compression to occur. That explains the great founts of carbon from the exhausts when it finally started. The black streaks on my driveway are nearly 6' long.

Sounds strange to me too in an FI system, but mechanically it makes sense.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
I could see full throttle doing a couple of things here on a FI system. Both start with the fact that this configuration moves the maximum amount of air through the engine.

First the extra air is most likely to clear any excess fuel out of the engine.

Second higher air velocity is much more likely to break up and "atomize" injector droplets.

Finally it is possible that some firmware engineer thought: "Hmmmm... it would be pretty extreme to see a *start* condition and full throttle at the same time. Maybe I have a relic driver who thinks it is flooded. Maybe not. But in either case I should probably shut off the fuel to protect the dummy's engine from starting."

With more use of microprocessors you are seeing more of this type of useability thinking going into products. My wife's Honda van turns off the heater fan until there is either hot or cold air to blow as requested.

Steve
"will write firmware for food"
 

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I did a little research about what and how the DTC's are recorded and this is what I found.

The OBD II system monitors for malfunctions either continuously, regardless of driving mode, or non-continuously, once per drive cycle during specific drive modes. A pending DTC is stored in the PCM Keep Alive Memory (KAM) when a malfunction is initially detected. This pending DTC maybe erased on the third vehicle restart after two consecutive drives cycles with no malfunction. However if the malfunction is still present after two consecutive drive cycles, the MIL is illuminated. Once the MIL is illuminated, three consecutive drive cycles without a malfunction detected are required to extinguish the MIL. The DTC is erased after 40 engine warm-up cycles once the MIL is extinguished.

Freeze frame data describes data stored in the PCM Keep Alive Memory (KAM) at the point the malfunction is initially detected.
Freeze frame data consists of parameters such as
engine rpm
engine load
state of fuel control
spark
warm-up status

Freeze frame data is stored at the time the first malfunction is detected, however, previously stored conditions will be replaced if a fuel or misfire fault is detected.

This data is accessible with the scan tool to assist in repairing the vehicle.

You would think with a no start condition like this that the KAM would have overwritten any Pending DTC's and unless you go through 40 start cycles, then the KAM will still be there for the dealer to read.

Also,
I am currently working on a FAQ for the PCM info and will post a link when I am done. Should have info like this in it.
AT WOT the alternator output is cutback.
At WOT the AC is turned off.

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Mid Life Crisis #388



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mid Life Crisis #388 on 2001-11-27 11:03 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Art Hyde answered my e-mail and said they don't have a good idea without an error code, but it sounds like a fuel delivery problem.

It doesn't seem to have done any harm.

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DHG No. 738

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TXBullitt on 2001-12-01 18:18 ]</font>
 
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