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Discussion Starter #1
Folks, I'd like to address an issue. The problem with the Chevy Camaro Z-28. *coughs*

1. Although they have 305 hp, you rarely get to race a stock one because when people buy Camaroes, they have to soup it up since they know someone who has a Mustang that'll smoke the living hell out of a stock Z.
2. I've heard the numbers on a stock Z. Not impressive. 13.2-13 flat in the quarter. For real.
3. Our BULLITTS are so much prettier than the Camaro, which incidently has had the same body style since '93 so that would make it... 8 years old! Christ!
4. It's ok to get beaten by a Z-28. For the amount of HP to Displacemnt, we have them beat.
5. An old strategy when racing a Z. When next to it, waiting for the light to change, open the door and try to look under the car. Make it look like there is something wrong. It'll distract him and when the light turns, punch it and get out of there. The Zs might have hp, but they're not that fast.

Thank you. Vote for me in the upcoming presidential election of 3010. :smile:
 

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Amen. I posted similar sentiments in a reply to "another bullitt bites the dust to a Z28 (LS1)".

A little faster does not mean better. One only has to look at the sales figures. Mustang sales dwarf Camaro and TA every year. Basic economics will teach you that the market ultimately decides which products are better. The F-Body is on the chopping block and Mustang is as strong as ever.
 

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ROFL Los! That is quite a distraction, indeed! :lol: Is that fair or is that like hitting below the belt?!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
All's fair in Love and War. Not really hitting below the belt because, well, Chevys suck. :smile: I'd say it's methodical thinking and tactical. :smile: Someone did that to a brand new 99 Z. I think it was in Dallas. Anyways, sat there and acted like he had a problem before the race. The light hit green, the Z didn't know what hit him as the 5.0 beat him. Lest to say, the 5.0 owner had a new Z sitting in his driveway afterwards. :smile:

Let's go BULLITTS!!!
 

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I do not see where people come off saying that z-28's are not that fast.
I may love mustangs but i'm no idiot.
the slowest z-28 (convertible auto)
is 0-60 in 5.2 sec. not very fast huh.
also if anyone has read anything on the dyno numbers of a stock ls1 it does not put out 305 hp it is more like 340 hp.
even though they are not of the same build quality of our stangs. the ls1 is by far a much superior engine in any trim.
 

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In 1968, the 68 Gt 390, would get it's butt spanked by a SS396 Camaro. But they used the Mustang in the movie Bullitt.... Just like today, more people choose the Mustang.
So There!
 

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Interesting facts that you may want to think about. The 1968 390 was a DOG.
The real bullitt had a highly modified 390 in it just to keep up with the 440 Charger.
more sales does not mean more performance orientated it just means more suited for the general public.
 

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funny thing, I owned a S code 4 speed mustang and while it was no cobra jet, it was no dog either... I used to run stock in the high 14's..doesnt sound dog like to me
 

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I didn't think it was dog ether..... But ford showed them can you say 428CJ 1968 OH boy..... the fur was flying....
 

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Well like you said high 14's not bad for cars back in the day. but now you can find stock 4 cylinders that are faster than the old iron muscle. I would say that these are the days of the real muscle cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ah, but 10 years from now, they'll have 2 cylinders pushing 500 hp with like 400 lbs of torque. The original muscle cars are all but dead. The Stang, Camaro, and TA hold those names. Next year, it'll just be the Stang.
 

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Muscle cars were what they were because of the way that they look,sound,feel,and smell.They look mean,they sound mean (nothing sounds like a high compression motor with lots of duration),they felt like they mean business(very stiff suspension for reasonable handling for their era,major compromise for comfort),and the smell of racing fuel and burning rubber is still great-just lots more expensive on both counts!As an example I had a 1987 Grand National that is currently running 7.90s in the 1/8 with 60s in the 1.6 range,with only minor mods-a fast car by any standards,they biggest reason that I traded it for a 1970 Torino Cobra with the 429 Cobra Jet and Ram Air was the muscle car sound and to experience another form of automotive history.Both are fast,both will burn rubber as long as you want,the same;just different.I think you will understand.
 

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amd the funny thing with the 390 was it would pull all day long from a roll... just a little difficult getting it moving, and thats witha 4speed not a 5 or 6 speed
i just sold her in april and I can assure you most Z's if we ran from a roll were in big trouble... from a stand still.... i was in trouble...lol
had fun anyway... would take em from about 30 till 100 and then back off.... left them wondering,,, wish i could have afforded to keep both..
 

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Point well taken guys.
But anyway we look at it the ls1 is faster than anything ford has ever come out with
(ex. 427, 5.4 cobra R) but it is not about what is faster. we all know if we wanted a car to just be fast, mustangs would sell about 300 cars a year, and the f-bodys would sell 200,000. But since people are into a thing called quality and craftsmenship, we buy mustangs. All i have to say is that anybody saying a ls1 equiped vehicle is not that fast is a dreamer. Just remember mustangers can add superchargers and make a car fast as hell, but on the same hand f-bodys accept superchargers as well then you are looking at a no win situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The reality is that yes, GM has out-powered our weenie 4.6. But we outclass them. Granted the F-body makes 35-55 more horses than we do... But in the sheer essence of things, the Mustangs ability to adapt instead of staying the same all the time gives us the advantage. While I don't believe LS-1 Camaros are 'that' fast, they are quick. But if Ford had put as much time and effort into their own 351W like Chevy did it's own 350SB, then we would have the likes of the 95 Cobra R model every year, you know, with 305 hp with 350 lbs trq, stuff like that.

I think Ford does this underpower strategy play to let GM know that, 'hey, we can get you if we really want.' Do you really think Ford in unaware of the lingering hp differences? Didn't you know??? Ford owns everything!!!

Although it would be nice to see the Cobra R out every year for just 35k, it would be unethical. The Mustang has always been the underdog. We like to see the underdog and cheer for it when it wins. It makes the joy of outrunning and outgunning the F-body or whoever else so much sweeter. And if we lose, that's ok. Because it's expected.

Los
 

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Just a thought...
I for one will be SAD to see the Camaro disappear from the market. I wonder where todays Mustang would be at, if the Camaro had left say like 5 years ago.
 

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Also you must remember that the f-body is heavier by several hundred pounds and that helps to underscore the horsepower difference.I have raced several f-body cars and owned several of them and they are virtually close enough that whomever gets the better light and is a superior driver takes the win.Just my opinion.I like them both.
 

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Mid Life,


I agree wholeheartedly. In fact Art Hyde even addressed thisissue in the Team Mustang meeting at the Woodward Dream Cruise. Competition definitely makes the breed better.


Eric
 

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Getting back to the old 390 thread, I have owned a few of them, and there are big performance differences between the different editions of the engine. Ford used to offer many of their engines with different camshaft and carburator setups.. a 390-2V had a lot of torque, but was mostly for station wagons. I have a 390-4V in a '68 Cougar that can really rock and roll. It is labeled a 'Maurader' engine.
 

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Oops. Misspelled the engine name .. It is 'Marauder'
 
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