[Dillo Dave]

For anyone who believes those late night infomercials on additives, the FTC is now going after the makers of Z-MAX. Tinted mineral oil......

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/zmax1.htm

 

[whiskycreek]

The law is finally catching up to these false claims and it's about time. I use only the best in my vehicles and it happens to be manufactured by the oldest lubricant company in N.America (founded 1839) http://schaefferoil.com I have written Ford requesting permission to use Schaeffers 5W30 instead of their spec 5W20. In regards to Fords specifications, one of the engine sequence test requirements for the
Ford Spec is a double length test. The particular engine used is presently no longer in production and the parts are no longer available or supported by the OEM. Thus there is a shortage of available test
standards to qualify an engine oil formulation. To this I say, Ford has no
grounds to insist that a person use the 5W20 hydrocracked base oil. I will advise of their response,

 

[DHG-1934]

I still don't get all the hubub about 5W20. The spec is well documented, and at least 2 manufacturers make fully synthetic 5W20. Unless you have concerns about the validity of the spec, why act like Ford is pushing bamboo shoots under your fingernails?

Joe

 

[whiskycreek]

Show me the API (American Petroleum Institute) certification for the two synthetics you mentioned. My guess is that they are not licenced and that will void your warranty.

 

[DHG-1934]

I use Amsoil. It is API service SJ and CF rated. If you want proof of that, I don't know what I can give you. I'm reading it off of the back of the bottle, and am going so far as to assume that it wouldn't be printed there if it weren't true. If this isn't good enough for ya, I'd like to see what proof you have of the ratings on the oils you use.

In adition, it specifically states that it meets Ford specification WSS-M2C153-H.

From AMSOIL's website: "NOTE: In order to ensure that lighter viscosity 5W-20 oils don’t sacrifice engine durability, Ford created its own oil specification known as the WSS-M2C153-H, which includes all ILSAC (GF-3) requirements, as well as an additional ASTM Sequence III Test. ... AMSOIL XL-7500 Synthetic 5W-20 Motor Oil (XLM) meets this requirement."

The other brand I have heard markets fully synthetic 5W20 is Redline. I don't use it, and I don't have a bottle handy, so you will have to do your own research there.

Joe

 

[DHG-1934]

Other 5W20 discussions which have already taken place here at Bullittclub:

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1257&forum=1

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=942&forum=1

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1742&forum=1

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1439&forum=16

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1416&forum=1

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1922&forum=9

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=2198&forum=1

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=946&forum=1

http://www.bullittclub.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1250&forum=9


At least a couple of these have links to a comparison of the properties of dino oil vs synthetic which was enough to convince me that I've got to reason to fear 5w20 synthetic, and after reading some of the quantifiable differences between the two, I don't think I'll ever put dino-oil in anything I own ever again.

Joe




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DHG-1934 on 2001-09-30 12:58 ]</font>

 

[whiskycreek]

Joe,
Ford's warranty states that you must use an API certified oil. Below is the link to Amsoil's licence with the API.
http://www.api.org/cgi-bin/eolcs_li.cgi?n=amsoil
Their 5W20 IS NOT certified. You use it and something goes wrong, I can promise you Ford will jump on that for a reason to void your warranty. Unfortunately, lubricant companies supply the info printed on their labels and some labels are misleading. If in fact you possess a bottle of Amsoil 5W20 with the API donut, I would encourage you to contact the API and inform them of this. I am not here to rattle sabres with you or anyone else regarding this matter. I've only stated that I wish to use an alternative brand and weight other than Fords and one that is certified.

Best Regards,
Daryl

 

[whiskycreek]

Joe,
As a footnote, the two classifications you mentioned "SJ" and "CF";

SJ is for gasoline engines
CF is considered an outdated classification for diesel.

CH-4 is the updated classification for diesel

 

[Mid Life Crisis #388]

All that is nice BUT the information in the manual is under the heading of
Engine oil and Filter Recommendations.
And whiskycreek, if you think Ford is going to go nuts then why do you think they would give you Special permission and set a legal presidence. Especially since the oil you are talking about is only ILSAC GF-2?
Nice link to the API site however I could not find your schaeffer oil. Did I miss it?
_________________
Mid Life Crisis #388



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mid Life Crisis #388 on 2001-09-30 18:09 ]</font>

 

[DHG-1934]

I had an idea that the CF was a Diesel spec, but I was on the way out the door when I responded, and figured it wasn't worth mentioning since we don't have diesel engines.

At any rate, as you said in a nutshell, you can use whatever you wish. I feel confident that if I have an engine problem that Ford claims to be due to use of Amsoil, Amsoil would be smart to jump to their own defense, since they claim to be API and FORD spec compliant. I assure you that Ford and AMSOIL will hear simultaneously from legal representation on my behalf if this is not the case. Insomuch as Amsoil has an entire section of their website dedicated to why it does not void any warranty, they would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle if this is not so.

Joe

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DHG-1934 on 2001-09-30 18:59 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DHG-1934 on 2001-09-30 19:02 ]</font>

 

[TXBullitt]

Joe,

It all starts out as dino oil. Synthetic goes through processing that removes parts of the hydrocarbon chain and attaches the modifyers in the vacant places.

In case anyone is wondering, the old "Pennsylvania Grade Crude" is composed of pure paraffins, hydrocarbon chains with the carbon atoms arranged in a straight line with single bonds between them. Paraffin does not refer to wax - the scientific name was hijacked by marketers for that. Other crudes contain aromatics, where the carbons are arranged in hexagons with 3 single bonds and 3 double bonds between the carbon atoms. Paraffins only require heat to separate the various fractions. Aromatics require some additional processing.

 

[DHG-1934]

Ok, then let me rephrase. What I meant to say was that I'll never conventional oil in my car again -- regardless of how it started life. Though I've been given the impression that this is not the case, you sound like you probably know more about how synthetic oil is created than I do, and I'll take your word for it.

However, my original point was that there is 5W20 out there, and no reason to deviate from the Ford spec. It would never cross my mind to argue with Ford about what oil should go in the engine they manufactured, particularly if I were concerned with warranty coverage.

Joe